Chat with other believers about Medjugorje.

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By MedjAdmin
#405
Hello,

I compiled a report of Our Lady's message at La Salette and I wanted to share it with the group. This is a very interesting and troubling message. I look forward to hearing what you think about this apparition.

Our Lady appeared to two children, Melanie (14) and Maximin (11) beginning on September 19, 1846, in the small mountain village La Salette, France.

Her secret message, with my interpretations, is as follows. Please note that these interpretations are not firm beliefs but more to be used as possible interpretations of this complex secret.


"Melanie, what I am about to tell you now will not always be a secret. You may make it public in 1858.”

NOTE: What happened in 1858? Our Lady began appearing to Bernadette in Lourdes, France! It seems fitting and timely that Our Lady would have the La Salette message be revealed just before she appeared again.

"The priests, ministers of my Son, the priests, by their wicked lives, by their irreverence and their impiety in the celebration of the holy mysteries, by their love of money, their love of honors and pleasures, the priests have become cesspools of impurity. Yes, the priests are asking for vengeance, and vengeance is hanging over their heads. Woe to the priests and to those dedicated to God who by their unfaithfulness and their wicked lives are crucifying my son again! The sins of those dedicated to God cry out towards Heaven and call for vengeance, and now vengeance is at their door, for there is no one left to beg mercy and forgiveness for the people. There are no more generous souls, there is no one left worthy of offering a stainless sacrifice to the Eternal God for the sake of the world.

"God will strike in an unprecedented way. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth! God will exhaust His wrath upon them, and no one will be able to escape so many afflictions together. The chiefs, the leaders of the people of God have neglected prayer and penance, and the devil has bedimmed their intelligence. They have become wandering stars which the old devil will drag along with his tail to make them perish. God will allow the old serpent to cause divisions among those who reign in every society and in every family. Physical and moral agonies will be suffered. God will abandon mankind to itself and will send punishments which will follow one after the other for more than thirty-five years.

NOTE: Was Our Lady referring to a period of 35 years from this message, meaning from 1846 to 1881? Probably not. Perhaps she is referring to a period to come much later, perhaps in our time, the time period she will refer to later in this secret as being a period of great earthly calamities that coincide with the rise of the Antichrist. Keep in mind that many points of this prophecy do not go in chronological order. Any prophetic message is dependent upon the messenger, and Melanie’s limited schooling may have been a factor in this.

"The society of men is on the eve of the most terrible scourges and of gravest events. Mankind must expect to be ruled with an iron rod and to drink from the chalice of the wrath of God. May the curate of my Son, Pope Pius IX, never leave Rome again after 1859; may he, however, be steadfast and noble, may he fight with the weapons of faith and love. I will be at his side. May he be on his guard against Napoleon: he is two-faced, and when he wishes to make himself Pope as well as Emperor, God will soon draw back from him. He is the master-mind who, always wanting to ascend further, will fall on the sword he wished to use to force his people to be raised up.

NOTE: This is interesting. The Napoleon whom we all know from history was the self-proclaimed emperor from the late 1700’s and early 1800’s. Napolean died long before this message was given, but that is not the person Our Lady is speaking of. The Emperor Napolean III, however, would come to governmental power later and he provided troops to protect Pius IX until 1870; while leading the French forces in the Franco-Prussian War, Napolean was captured by the Germans, who sent him into exile.

"Italy will be punished for her ambition in wanting to shake off the yoke of the Lord of Lords. And so she will be left to fight a war; blood will flow on all sides. Churches will be locked up or desecrated. Priests and religious orders will be hunted down, and made to die a cruel death. Several will abandon the faith, and a great number of priests and members of religious orders will break away from the true religion; among these people there will even be bishops.

NOTE: From 1859 to 1900, Italy was in 7 wars, 4 of which were Italian civil wars!

"May the Pope guard against the performers of miracles. For the time has come when the most astonishing wonders will take place on the earth and in the air.

"In the year 1864, Lucifer together with a large number of demons will be unloosed from hell; they will put an end to faith little by little, even in those dedicated to God. They will blind them in such a way, that, unless they are blessed with a special grace, these people will take on the spirit of these angels of hell; several religious institutions will lose all faith and will lose many souls.

NOTE: Interesting that Our Lady should give an exact date for the release of Satan and his demons from hell. So what happened in 1864? Father of Communism, Karl Marx, was released from political isolation in 1864 with the founding of the International Working Men's Association. Its first public meeting, called by English trade union leaders and French workers' representatives, took place at St. Martin's Hall in London on Sept. 28, 1864!

"Evil books will be abundant on earth and the spirits of darkness will spread everywhere a universal slackening in all that concerns the service of God. They will have great power over nature: there will be churches built to serve these spirits. People will be transported from one place to another by these evil spirits, even priests, for they will not have been guided by the good spirit of the Gospel, which is a spirit of humility, charity and zeal for the glory of God. On occasions, the dead and the righteous will be brought back to life. (That is to say that these dead will take on the form of righteous souls which had lived on earth, in order to lead men further astray; these so-called resurrected dead, who will be nothing but the devil in this form, will preach another gospel contrary to that of the true Christ Jesus, denying the existence of Heaven; that is also to say, the souls of the damned. All these souls will appear as if fixed to their bodies).

NOTE: This is up to interpretation. It seems as if Our Lady is speaking of something in the spiritual realm that men on earth cannot see, and so it sounds strange to us. The statement “All these souls will appear as if fixed to their bodies” seems to identify this as a spiritual scene, since human beings, for the most part, cannot see souls.

"Extraordinary prodigies will abound everywhere because the true faith has been extinguished and the false light illuminates the world. Woe to the princes of the Church who only concern themselves with the accumulation of riches upon riches, protect their authority and rule with pride.

"...The Vicar of my Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to large persecution, a time of darkness, and the Church will witness a frightful crisis. The true faith of the Lord having been forgotten, each individual will want to be on his own and be superior to people of the same identity. They will abolish civil rights as well as ecclesiastical, all order and all justice would be trampled underfoot and only homicides, hate, jealousy, lies and dissension would be seen without love for country or family.

NOTE: There’s no doubt that all this has taken place and continues to escalate.

"The Holy Father will suffer a great deal. I will be with him until the end and receive his sacrifice. The mischievous would attempt his life several times to do harm and shorten his days but neither he nor his successor will see the triumph of the Church of God.

"All the civil governments will have one and the same plan, which will be to abolish and do away with every religious principle, to make way for materialism, atheism, spiritualism and vice of all kinds. In the year 1865, there will be desecration of holy places. In convents, the flowers of the Church will decompose and the devil will make himself like the king of all hearts. May those in charge of religious communities be on their guard against the people they must receive, for the devil will resort to all his evil tricks to introduce sinners in to religious orders, for disorder and the love of carnal pleasures will be spread all over the earth.

NOTE: We saw this then and most recently with the priest abuse scandal, where the devil was very successful in “introducing sinners in to religious orders” with their “love of carnal pleasures.”

"...France, Italy, Spain and England will be at war. Blood will flow in the streets. Frenchman will fight Frenchman, Italian will fight Italian.

NOTE: Spain was in 14 wars from 1859-1900, Italy was in 7 including 4 civil wars, France was in 25 including the civil war of 1871, and England was in 40 which were mostly colonial wars. It is interesting that Our Lady says “Frenchman will fight Frenchman, Italian will fight Italian” because those were the two countries of the four that saw a series of civil wars.

A general war will follow which will be appalling. For a time, God will cease to remember France and Italy because the Gospel of Jesus Christ has been forgotten. The wicked will make use of all their evil ways. Men will kill each other, massacre each other even in their homes. At the first blow of His thundering sword, the mountains and all nature will tremble in terror, for the disorders and crimes of men have pierced the vault of the heavens. Paris will burn and Marseilles will be engulfed. Several cities will be shaken down and swallowed up by earthquakes. People will believe that all is lost. Nothing will be seen but murder, nothing will be heard but the clash of arms and blasphemy.

NOTE: Here she speaks of WWI, the first major world war, and she describes it in vivid detail.

"The righteous will suffer greatly. Their prayers, their penances and their tears will rise up to Heaven and all of God's people will beg for forgiveness and mercy and will plead for my help and intercession. And then Jesus Christ, in an act of His justice and His great mercy will command His angels to have all His enemies put to death. Suddenly, the persecutors of the Church of Jesus Christ and all those given over to sin will perish and the earth will become desert-like. And then peace will be made, and man will be reconciled with God.

NOTE: Jesus commands his angels to put his enemies to death… Recall the WWI story of the Angels of Mons, where numerous British soldiers (the good guys) claimed they saw armies of angels who helped them in battle. Our Lady gives validity to the idea that God helped win the first world war.

“Jesus Christ will be served, worshipped, and glorified. Charity will flourish everywhere. The new kings will be the right arm of the holy Church, which will be strong, humble, pious, poor but fervent in the imitation of the virtues of Jesus Christ. The Gospel will be preached everywhere and mankind will make great progress in its faith, for there will be unity among the workers of Jesus Christ and man will live in fear of God.

"This peace among men will be short-lived. Twenty-five years of plentiful harvests will make them forget that the sins of men are the cause of all the troubles on this earth.

NOTE: Approximately 25 years after WWI, after a time of relative peace, the world found itself locked in the throes of WWII.

“A forerunner of the Antichrist, with his troops gathered from several nations, will fight against the true Christ, the only Savior of the world. He will shed much blood and will want to annihilate the worship of God to make himself be looked upon as a God.

NOTE: This seems to describe Hitler and WWII in every way.

"The earth will be struck by calamities of all kinds (in addition to plague and famine which will be widespread). There will be a series of wars until the last war, which will then be fought by the ten kings of the Antichrist, all of whom will have one and the same plan and will be the only rulers of the world. Before this comes to pass, there will be a kind of false peace in the world. People will think of nothing but amusement. The wicked will give themselves over to all kinds of sin. But the children of the holy Church, the children of my faith, my true followers, they will grow in their love for God and in all the virtues most precious to me. Blessed are the souls humbly guided by the Holy Spirit! I shall fight at their side until they reach a fullness of years.

NOTE: This is an interesting reverse prophecy. After WWII, a “kind of false peace” has indeed spread throughout the world. The Cold War could be considered a false peace, but it seems like the false peace she speaks of is the life us Americans and the other free nations have been living for a long time. Most of us think of nothing but amusement, and there is virtually no earthly limit to the sorts of demented sins to which people are giving in. This “false peace” is giving way to our planet being “struck by calamities of all kinds” which are increasing in number every day. Just look at the recent hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunami and 9/11; it is obvious we are in this period Our Lady warned of. Many more calamities will come. There are wars happening now, and our future holds “a series of wars until the last war,” which will be fought by the Antichrist.

"Nature is asking for vengeance because of man, and she trembles with dread at what must happen to the earth stained with crime. Tremble, earth, and you who proclaim yourselves as serving Jesus Christ and who, on the inside, only adore yourselves, tremble, for God will hand you over to His enemy because the holy places are in the state of corruption.... It will be during this time that the Antichrist will be born of a Hebrew nun, a false virgin who will communicate with the old serpent, the master of impurity, his father will be Bishop. At birth, he will spew out blasphemy; he will have teeth, in a word, he will be the devil incarnate. He will scream horribly, he will perform wonders, he will feed on nothing but impurity. He will have brothers who, although not devils incarnate like him, will be children of evil. At the age of twelve, they will draw attention upon themselves by the gallant victories they will have won; soon they will each lead armies, aided by the legions of hell.

NOTE: There are many other prophecies that the Antichrist will be born of a Jewish woman who claims to be a Virgin, thus paving the way for the Antichrist to claim he is the Jewish Messiah. Here, Our Lady says that “during this time” – meaning during the time of the “false peace” – the Antichrist will be born. If we are to understand this as our time, then the Antichrist has likely been born or is soon to be born.

"The seasons will be altered, the earth will produce nothing but bad fruit, the stars will lose their regular motion, the moon will only reflect a faint reddish glow. Water and fire will give the earth's globe convulsions and terrible earthquakes which will swallow up mountains, cities.... Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.

NOTE: The line about Rome losing the faith and becoming the seat of the Antichrist does not mean that a future Pope will be the Antichrist. Instead, it means that Rome – Vatican City as a physical place – will at least be taken over by the Antichrist and could mean he will use it as headquarters. In many other Catholic prophecies, saints foretell that a time will come when the Pope will be driven from Rome, allowing the forces of evil to take it over, and then the Pope will die a cruel death in exile.

"The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders on earth and in the atmosphere, and men will become more and more perverted. God will take care of his faithful servants and men of good will. The Gospel will be preached everywhere, and all peoples of all nations will get to know the truth.

NOTE: As noted in Revelations, a sign of the end of the world is that the Gospel will be preached in all nations. Fundamentalists may argue that this has not happened yet, but in reality there is not a country on earth where the Gospel has not spread to, even though it may not be preached prevalently in Communist or Muslim countries— it is still present.

"I make an urgent appeal to the earth. I call on the true disciples of the living God who reigns in Heaven; I call on the true followers of Christ made man, the only true Savior of men; I call on my children, the true faithful, those who have given themselves to me so that I may lead them to my divine Son, those whom I carry in My arms, so to speak, those who have lived according to My spirit. Finally, I call on the apostles of the Last Days, the faithful disciples of Jesus Christ who have lived in scorn for the world and for themselves, in poverty and in humility, in union with God, in suffering unknown to the world. It is time they came out and filled the world with light. Go and reveal yourselves to be my cherished children. I am at your side and within you, provided that your faith is the light which shines upon you in these unhappy days. May your zeal make you famished for the glory and the honor of Jesus Christ. Fight, children of light, you, the few who can see. For now is the time of all times, the end of all ends.

"The Church will be in eclipse, the world will be in dismay. But now Enoch and Eli will come, filled with the spirit of God. They will preach with the might of God, and men of good will believe in God, and many souls will be comforted. They will make great steps forward through the virtue of the Holy Spirit and will condemn the devilish lapses of the Antichrist. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth! There will be bloody wars and famines, plagues and infectious diseases. It will rain with a fearful hail of animals. There will be thunderstorms which will shake cities, earthquakes which will swallow up countries. Voices will be heard in the air. Men will beat their heads against walls, call for their death, and on another side death will be their torment. Blood will flow on all sides. Who will be the victor if God does not shorten the length of the test? All the blood, the tears and the prayers of the righteous, God will relent. Enoch and Eli will be put to death. Pagan Rome will disappear. The fire of Heaven will fall and consume three cities. All the universe will be struck with terror and many will let themselves be led astray because they have not worshipped the true Christ who lives among them. It is time; the sun is darkening; only faith will survive.

"Now is the time, the abyss is opening. Here is the king of kings of darkness, here is the Beast with his subjects, calling himself the Savior of the world. He will rise proudly into the air to go to Heaven. He will be smothered by the breath of the Archangel Saint Michael. He will fall, and the earth, which will have been in a continuous series of convolutions for three days, will open up its fiery bowels; and he will have plunged for eternity with all his followers into the everlasting chasms of hell. And then water and fire will purge the earth and consume all the works of men's pride and all will be renewed. God will be served and glorified.

FINAL NOTE: There is little doubt that prophecies in this message from Our Lady of La Salette are very accurate. So many other Catholic prophecies point to our times as the end times. Prophecies from saints and more importantly the Book of Revelations are quite similar to the La Salette message. This prophecy, however, shows that God’s time is not like our time: the “end days” obviously began more than a century ago, and as Satan’s time runs short, he in turn becomes more ferocious. The Virgin has continued to be with us throughout these trying times: in Lourdes, Fatima and now at Medjugorje, she is guiding us. As members of Our Lady’s army, we are the fortunate ones and with faith in Christ we have nothing to fear.
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By Covenant
#406
The La Salle apparitions are approved by the Church and therefore worthy of belief. Our Lady came and condemned lack of prayer, lack of fasting, (particularly in Lent), blasphemy and working on Sunday. She called for repentence or warned of a terrible famine would occur. She gave a secret, which was passed on to Pius IX. That much we know, but controversies followed.

Both Melanie and Maximin led somewhat unsuccesful lives following the apparitions which has cast a shadow on the authenticated vision. Maximin apparently said to St. Jean Vinnaney that he didn't know who the beautiful woman was who appeared to him and that yes he had told lies. Unimpressed, the Cure of Ars disbelieved the apparitions until he performed miracles under the intercession of "Our Lady of La Salle". Maximin tried to enter the priesthood but dropped out.
The same kind of story for Melanie. She entered several religious orders but couldn't stick it out. She became something of a religious fanatic and published the so called "Secret" that had been given her, some of which is quoted above. The secret is so strange that the local bishop condemned the Secret as unworthy of belief. The only solution of this is of course for the Vatican to release the secret given to Pius IX, if it is still in existence (which I'm sure it is.) This would finally settle whether or not the Secret released by Melanie is authentic or just merely the ramblings of a woman who sadly had gone off the deep end.

But this shouldn't obscure the published record of Our Lady's sayings seperate to the Secret.

She spoke of her role as Intercessor saying, "If my people will not obey, I shall be compelled to loose my Son's arm. It is so heavy, so pressing that I can no longer restrain it. How long I have suffered for you...you will never be able to make up what I have endured for your sake."

On the Sabbath, "God has appointed you six days for working. The seventh He has reserved for Himself. And no-one will give it to Him. This is what causes my Son's arm to be so crushing."

On blasphemy, "The cart drivers cannot swear without bringing in my Son's name. These are the two things that make my Son's arm so burdensome."

On prayer, "It is important that you say your prayers, at night and in the morning. When you don't have time, at least say an Our Father and Hail Mary. And when you can, say more."

On religious observance, "Only a few rather old women go to Mass in the summer. All the rest work every Sunday thorughout the summer. And in winter, when they don't know what to do with themselves, they go to Mass only to poke fun at religion. During Lent they flock to the butcher shops like dogs."

The apparition is really about people fulfilling the Cardinal virtue of Justice. Chrisitans must pray every day, morning and evening. They must fear God and not make a mockery of religion. They must cease work on Sundays and go to Mass. They must observe the fasts of the Church, particularly Lent. If God looks down and sees that people don't care about Him, don't pray, don't fast, don't go to Mass, don't follow the commandments, then He is forced to act.

Our Lady may have couched the punishment in terms of her 'holding back the arm of Christ', but I think rather she is saying this to dramatically make a point. God, in my belief, would rarely send pestilence or disease, but rather if the people are not praying and observing His commandments, then He just fails to intervene to stop what will occur naturally. This belief of mine comes from Isaiah, when God speaks of those who pray to other gods and says, "When disaster comes, what will your gods do?" God is saying in effect, 'Live your lives without me and see what happens." What do you think about this? Is God actively punishing or is it more passive?
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By MedjAdmin
#408
I've struggled with this, because so often we hear messages of God sending punishment and chastisement to the world.

I think God allows misfortunes to happen when people do not want his help. America is telling Him that we don't need him. All we see are the calamities that do occur, but what about the many things he has prevented because of our past obedience? We live on a planet that probably should be more volatile than it really is. With all the earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, etc that God has allowed, there are probably so many more that he has prevented.

On the other hand, perhaps God is causing calamities and will do so even more in the future, as the prophesied purification of the world. Death is not a bad thing, it's living a life of sin and not making it to Heaven that would be the root of God's reasons to purify the world. As of now, this world is seeing the multiplication of sin and so many people -- more than ever before -- are going down the wrong path and taking others with them. I have heard prophecies where the saints in Heaven are begging God to purify the world, so people can be saved.

This message does not exactly sound like Our Lady's voice in some ways, and no doubt there must be some interpretations from Melanie. But, I think and hope, that at the root of these messages can be found Mary's message.

Regardless, as we continue to remark, and as the visionaries point out, with faith in God we believers have nothing to fear.
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By Covenant
#414
Yes, suffering does purify people, and purification leads to clarity, repentence and renewed faith. Life on earth is very short and it is our mortality that defines us, part of the truth of our existence. Things like Tsunami rock people out of their own 'worlds' often without God, and make them realize that they are ultimately powerless to determine their life. This causes them to seek God and this leads to salvation.

Does God send punishments directly? In the Scripture this is sometimes in the affirmative, as was the case with Sodom and Gomorrah. I was in Barcelona, Spain, last year-a modern day Sodom-and felt that God's Justice would have been so outraged by the immorality there that He has no choice but to act.

In Barcelona, hard core gay pornography was for sale on every street corner, with sex acts on the cover for all to see. Hundreds of gays and lesbians walked hand in hand down the street and ran nude on the beach. At night I couldn't get to sleep because of prostitutes having sex with people below my window and arabs peddling drugs. It was there that the 10 Secrets of Medjugorje made complete sense. Spain is now a nation that is anti-God in the extreme. The new PM is pushing for gay marriage and adoption, and for more abortions. To think that Spain, once so triumphantly Catholic, is now so overcome by evil, makes me sick to my stomach. God will not be mocked, however, and yes, unless they repent, they will perish. As the Lord said to Isaiah, "Should I not avenge Myself on a people such as this?"

Pray, Pray, Pray for the conversion of poor sinners, whose consciences have been so darkened by living in the midst of immense evil. I was present in 2002 for Our Lady's monthly apparition to Mirjana, the purpose of which is to pray for sinners, and afterwards Mirjana collapsed in tears. Something big is just around the corner, and we need to help Our Lady to fulfill Her plans.