[jpinto]

I think the last 10 posts or so were directed to me, some of them are explicitly asking me to leave.

As i approach my final notes on this matter, as requested by you, i can't stop thinking if some has read the Bishop link... because it doesn't look like it. From all the information there, noone debated on the article. Am i wrong?

I'm not here to please you.
I'm here for the truth.
The Lord didn't pleased any of the Jews that were wrong.
He always spoke the truth. Am i wrong?

The problem is that people seem to be so "in love" with their own feelings that they don't listen to anything else.
People are citing messages instead of the Scriptures. People seem to wan't to continue to live in a state that they don't care for the truth, but only for what they feel.
And some, look at some quotes from the Bible, and complety miss what's written there!

Many of you are disregarding if i ever believed in Medjugorje or wen't there. Are you aware of what you stating? I'm calling people to discuss with ideas and views, and to justify their action on the Holy Bilbe, and i read things like "you obviously never been to Medjugorje".

There are things that can do bad to people, and that might be:
- Not seeking the truth.
- Looking at it, and turning it's back on it.

Between many important things, the article from the Bishop states this:
Ratzinger's frei erfunden. In 1998, when a certain German gathered various statements which were supposedly made by the Holy Father and the Cardinal Prefect, and forwarded them to the Vatican in the form of a memorandum, the Cardinal responded in writing on 22 July 1998: "The only thing I can say regarding statements on Medjugorje ascribed to the Holy Father and myself is that they are complete invention" - frei erfunden - (O. P., p. 283).

And also this:
If the faithful of the parish of St. James's in Medjugorje sincerely confess their sins and pray, regardless of all the nursery rhyme "apparitions", they thereby certainly receive the same Divine graces that other believers receive who pray and validly receive the sacraments in Catholic churches throughout the world. The local Church has always held this belief (O. P., pp. 268-269).

There are people on this site that only read The Church position coming from some particular sites (that have nothing to do with the Holy Catholic Church), and actually believe The Church said that!

Most of you don't know, but Medjugorje is a pretty much closed subject on the Vatican. Yet, people dream because all they read is the same one or two sites over an over again.

One last thing. I am not against any of you, yet many of you think that i am, and state things like "you're looking for a fight with us".
Aren't many of you Catholics? Why are you insisting on dividing "Catholics versus Catholics Medjugorje believers", while i'm posting based on facts, not something from the same medjugorje site over and over again.

It's very unusual to see Catholics send away other peoples that are discussing the subject propertly, based on true positions, trying always to get the facts. Yet, on this forum people just wan't to be in "peace", disregarding the truth.
Isn't that what agnostics/atheists/whatever do?

Fortunatelly, not all of you are like this.

Other visionaries
Other the visionaries linked with Medjugorje have The Church position stated. Yet, people disregard also the doctrinal errors contained there.
And all of them continue to be in a state of "love" for praying and fasting, not caring if the Lord is rigorous or not regarding is own word, The Holy Bible.

Final note
Please read: Matthew 13:24-30

[starbright]

It's very unusual to see Catholics send away other peoples that are discussing the subject propertly

But you're not discussing it properly. If you were, you would be engaging with us not repeating the same things over and over, not being condescending, not offending us, not saying untruths about Medj.

That's all I'm going to say. I'm not going to answer you again.

[LittleRed]

Gee Jpinto, I know several Catholic priests who believe in Medjugorje and in fact, they received the call to enter the priesthood because of Medjugorje....The Church has not closed its doors to Medjugorje...They have not ruled on Medjugorje....There will be no ruling until the apparitions have ceased.....that is the process of the church....

You will not change my mind about Medjugorje....If you do not like what is going on in this forum, I suggest you do not frequent this forum...and that is only some friendly advise....I do wish to offend you, but you have offended quite a few of us on this fourm....You sound very condescending in your posts....

You throw out to us believers that we are causing a division in the Church...Where are we causing a divsion???? You got me there...I see NO division within the Church because of Medjugorje....I love my Catholic faith and I love the Church...When you come on this forum stating such ridiculous facts, it is offfensive to say the least.....

Bless, Sharon

[StevieBoy]

Final note

Somehow, I doubt it...

[Medjugorje Vin]

Hi Jpinto,

"This is what I will do in the last days,God says:I will pour out my Spirit on everyone.
Your sons and daughters will proclaim my message;Your young men will see visions,and your old men will have dreams.

Yes,even on my servants,both men and women,I will pour out my Spirit in those days,and they will proclaim my message.

I will perform miracles in the sky above and wonders on the earth below.

There will be blood,fire and thick smoke;the sun will be darkened,and the moon will turn red as blood,before the great and glorious Day of the Lord comes.

And then,whoever calls out to the Lord for help will be saved."

Acts 2:17


Yes JPinto we are mostly Catholics on this sight and we would be wrong to refrain from speaking of what we have seen for fear of ridicule and hostility.We who have witnessed events would be doing a great disservice to people if we did not share them.

You will have noticed that the witnesses that people have testified too are written in a manner that is left open for people to either believe it or not,no one is demanding they are believed.

However,just as people who are witnesses to what is happening in Medjugorje do not demand that people believe them,I think that they should also be shown the same courtesy by those who do not believe in what is happening there.

The Vatican would have crushed Medjugorje years ago if it thought that millions of the Faith were being led astray or duped.

Incidently,Fr Cantamelessa(The Pope's Preacher) is leading the Seminar for Priests this year......in Medjugorje.

Praised be Jesus and Mary ALWAYS

Medjugorje Vin

[mayman89]

heya, didnt read all the replies but I dont know what I would do. I (unlike most of you) have a wild(ish) streak, so I'd probably protest by leaving the church completely as Medjugorje is the only reason I have faith. That wouldnt necessarily stop my faith but I dont think the church should control your beliefs, but help and nourish them with reassurance and guide you through life. If Medjugorje were deemed purely evil, I would therefore have been reintroduced to the church through an evil medium and this would probably make me question my beliefs.

[anthony]

Pinto

Medjugorje is a haven of peace in a world that is in turmoil and has lost its way. People go there to pray, fast, for hope, and just to become closer to God. It's a place for people to meditate on where their lives are and how they can transform their lives in a more positive way by living out the messages given by our Blessed Mother.
The Catholic Church that I belong to is all about prayer, fasting, hope, and converting our sinful lives into lives that follow the will of our Lord Jesus Christ. If people become closer to Jesus in Medjugorje than I really don't think our Lord would be unhappy with that.
Satan can find his way into our hearts in many differant ways, even to use a person to cause turmoil and confusion where there is peace, if you know what I mean!

Tony

[rogertc]

Pinto,

I don't really see the necessity in speculating if the the Lords' Church & Vicar of Jesus will sanction statements informing us that Medj. is Evil and must be avoided. That I am confident will not occurr and take your questions on what will never be as an Insult and an & evil attempt to cause some to question their Faith and our devotion to our Blessed Virgin Mother of God. For it is written in the Gospel of Matthew "... a nation divided among itself shall fall for if they are for us who can be against us..." and you Pinto my lost brother are rediculous.

So stop with your mindless speculations and trying to bring discord among us, with your pointless inquiries.

[baabaas]

Pinto there have been others that have tried to take us down the same road you are and our research people that we had at the time were able to prove our validity so I think I speak for everyone when I say we feel you are just another tool of those who are anti-medjugorje, everyone on this forum knows that the internet has all this false untruthful rhetoric that is aimed against us and our Lady so you are just seen by us as a tool of the ............I leave it to you to fill in the empty space!

Dave

[Tarnum]

Guys heres what our Lady has asked us to do when people question medjugorje:

October 27, 1983
If someone asks you about me, and about what I say, answer: It is no use to explain. It is in praying that we will understand better. Pray, pray, pray. You will get nothing from chatter, but only from prayer.’


So i say the same to you jpinto, our explanations are of no use to you, they will only fuel you for debate when you notice our human errors within our attempts at reasoning. You clearly are concerned about medjugorje for what ever strange reason, so pray, if you really want to understand more about it, pray. I promise you will understand much more truth if you pray instead.

May the Holy Spirit guide you in your prayers,
Godbless,

Tarnun

[bluecross]

Tarnum... I am interested as to where you sourced this message from. I don’t remember having come across it before.

[Tarnum]

Messages given to Jelena, you can read them in some books, also they are on some websites such as www.(linking to this site is not allowed).

Godbless

TarnuM

[puddyhuston]

Thanks Liam even though I knew a little about Jelena and got to photograph her at Medjugorje this time, I never really read her messages before or knew she had so many.
They are very interesting.

[str]

In reading thru this thread, it seems to me that jpinto was treated unfairly. I got the impression that most postings were trying to gang up on him and ruffle his feathers as opposed to addressing the points that were raised.

I went to the link that he suggested and thought that most of the comments could be addressed.

It seems lately that things get quite personal very quickly, instead of trying to help each other and grow in our faith together.

One of ways to grow in faith is to evaluate opionions that are different from you own and find the shortcomings in the challenges.

STR

[baabaas]

STR we have seen quite a few like JPinto on this forum I read through everything before I posted and saw right away that he wasn't trying to be agreeable, this is a pro medjugorje website therefore the majority of us feel we do not need people that have adopted the anti medjugorje position to come onto our website and try to get something going and most of us found his manner very condescending and very unwilling to consider our side of the issue.

I think if you will read all the posting you will reach the same concusions that all of us came to.

Dave

[Tarnum]

nevertheless let us all pray that we can follow what our Lady wants us to do in the situation which is to simply say It is no use to explain. It is in praying that we will understand better. becuase we end up judging the faults of our brothers and sisters who have an subtle vendetta against medjugorje, rather than praying that their hearts could be opened. what do you think is more effective on the persons soul? Explanation that results in judging others, or prayer that can melt the coldest of hearts?

Godbless,
Tarnum

[thebpman]

Pinto,

I hope you haven't gone completely. I can see that you must be terrified by the trouble that would be created if what you are suggesting were to happen. (Relax, it's not going to happen). I can see that you must be in a terrible state of tormoil in fearing for the souls of the believers of medjugorje, but you really do not have to be and that if you are genuine I can see that you have writen all this out of love.

You seem to be very good with the Bible. I dabble a bit, and I know that there is a story somewhere in the new testiment that explains what you are going through. I am sure that you can find it. It is the one where the apostles come to Jesus and tell him that there is a man or men who were not part of Jesus's group who were driving out demons in Jesus's name. The apostles thought this was not right but Jesus said to leave him alone because noone could drive out demons in his name and not eventually come to believe in him.

There is that other story too with St. Paul (I think) where some men used Jesus's name to drive out demons. They did not have the authority to do so and the demons turned on them and tore there clothes apart and wounded them.

Demons really do get driven out in Medjugorje, every type of Demon from the scruples in the sandal that have been bugging people for years to the big hairy legged pointy eared kind.

The foundation of your faith is in Christ it can not be shaken. If you have the cash visit Medjugorje. See for yourself, it can not hurt. If you do not have the cash ask Jesus to invite you and you will undoubtably be pleased with the response.

All the best Pinto. And relax the Big Man is in charge

I hope that I have not frustrated the mediators with this response, I am new to this group and this is my first posting. (I must say though that I think that Our Lady is really gathering us under her mantle, I've been looking for a forum like this for years. Its BRILLIANT.)

Pete

[Tarnum]

Welcome to the Forum, and what a beautiful way you have addressed Pinto, let it be an example for us all on the forum, and humble us all who are sinners, that his attitude which had no suspicion, accusation or defence is so inspiring, full of love, immediate forgiviness and plea to spread Gods work at Medjugorje. Whether or not pinto was being manipulative, your love in your post wouldnt even consider it. Great to have another shining star on the Forum, welcome Pete!!

[starbright]

Welcome, Pete

[Ger]

I think I speak for everyone when I say we feel you are just another tool of those who are anti-medjugorje, everyone on this forum knows that the internet has all this false untruthful rhetoric that is aimed against us and our Lady so you are just seen by us as a tool of the ............I leave it to you to fill in the empty space!

Dave, I don't know how many you speak for when you say that - perhaps the majority of the regular posters, and I know I'm not a regular poster - but you don't speak for me. I prefer to give jpinto the benefit of the doubt; I think he is genuinely concerned for our spiritual welfare though I disagree with him.

God Bless

Ger

[baabaas]

Ger; there was a time when I first came on this forum when I use to feel just like you and Tarnum as at that time there were some that were on here that were anti medjugorje and what was worse they only promoted confliction you and Tarnum are both right I agree with you in heart and spirit I was just letting Pinto know that if he came here to conflict and start trouble that we were not going to go through all that we went through last time as Sean had to delete their posts and told them in no certain terms as he did this person that they were out of touch with the subject matter and all else that goes on in this forum.

It sort of has to be that way for if we were to allow their negativity and squabbling it could change the whole mood of this forum-you should check Sean's posting on this thread with Pinto. You and Tarnum are very nice spiritual people and you help make this forum a great place and we want to keep ot that way.

Dave

[Tarnum]

it is very frustrating for us all, because its such a cliche - always how the story goes that you get the pharasees who are convinced they are right and pride themselves with their accusations, you get the attack on lourdes and fatima and now its no suprise with medjugorje, i would be worried if there WASNT an attack on medjugorje as i would then ask myself "where is the devil in all this? why is he so silent?" rather he is not silent but he roars like a lion against medjugorje and manages to decieve as many as he can only through spreading rumours which give people kicks of pride the moment they cast out the accusations.

However i felt the need to say about what our lady said, because i learnt a great and sorrowful lesson, when spending 3 weeks looking after an old blind priest, who sadly was unbearable arrogant and so against medjugorje it was pathetic! he spoke against me fasting saying it was cruelty and many things. However i didnt respond with love but argued with him and set my judgement of how arrogant he was. I got absolutley nowhere, and within this season was when our lady suddenly put a great emphasis on respect for Priests. I was filled with sorrow.

Now when someone puts forward a question of debate, i actually WONDER what they will have to answer, when we take our Mother's advice, and simply say It is no use to explain; it is in praying that we will understand better.

[Merlorrich]

Jesus said "Love one another as I have loved you". What a maturity this thread has taken on. Though I am not a moderator, I would like to see Jpinto back to join us in giving service and love to Jesus and Our Lady. Amen.

[baabaas]

I have had a similar experience with a couple of very elderly Priest except I very wisely did not argue with them for there is a passage in the Pieta Prayer book which I use every day that explains how we must never say anything against a Priest even though we may believe that they are overly Liberal I had to say to myself I will pray for the one that seemed most against anything at all mystical-he had a lot of others praying for him also.

He had been physically struggling because of Prostrate Cancer and went through years of Chemo Therapy the cancer spread and he had it in his hip was in so much pain in the meantime durring his struggle with this condition he had lost a brother and sister to Cancer and when he was very ill listed his name in a Church here that has accounted for some healings and he prayed also(which was really something, because he had even been against the Rosary)and he received a healing and today is now cancer free which is quite miraculous as we all saw him struggling very hard with it for more than 7 yrs.

How's that for something positive Tarnum.

Dave

[unclealex]

The La Salette devotion, and particularly the 'Secret of La Salette', stirred up much hostility against the seers Melanie
and Maximin, that, to this day, the reputations of those devout souls are still called to question. Fierce hostility to the
'Secret' soon developed within a certain coterie of the clergy, possibly where Masonic infiltration had been most
effective. The two seers became the targets of vicious attacks, particularly among members of the French hierarchy
Interestingly, the Bishops who had most violently opposed the young seers and the La Salette devotion were
stopped "dead" in their tracks, according to the following account of that time:

"Four French Bishops devoted themselves to the work of suffocating the belief in La Salette among the population.
But they all died in tragic and mysterious circumstances. Bishop Ginovuhac of Grenoble, who had confined
the young Melanie in an English convent in order to silence her, died shortly afterwards in a madhouse. His
successor, Bishop Fava, who also did everything possible in order to halt the dissemination of the La Salette devotion,
was found dead, stretched out on the floor, stripped, with disfigured eyes, and clenched fists. Bishop Gilbert of Amieins,
who had said,'The secret of La Salette is nothing more than a tissue of profaneness, lies, and exaggeration,' shortly
after 16 August 1889 was found dead in his room, also having fallen to the floor. And during his funeral his coffin
crashed from the catafalque. Archbishop Darboy of Paris, who personally interrogated Maximin, causing him great
psychological disturbance in order to learn the secret of the Virgin, and being perturbed by not obtaining it, had
said to the boy:'The words of your beautiful lady contain stupidity, as stupid as will be your secret.' This brought
the response from the boy:'It is as true, that I have seen the beautiful lady, as I am certain that before three years
are out, you will have been shot. The time for the revolutionary movement of the Communes had not yet come,
nor had it been foreseen by the complacent and careless France of the Second Empire. But on 24 May 1871, this prediction
also came true: Archbishop Darboy was shot by the Communards of Paris.

Luigi Villa, "La Salette, '19 settembre 1846, ['l fatti sono...fatti'] Chiesa Viva, #143, November 1972, Brescia, Italy, p.4

Many years later, in Italy, Melanie would have the 'Secret of La Salette' printed at her own expense in its entirety.
Monsignore Salvator Grafen Zola, the Bishop of Lece, granted Melanie an imprimatur for the first publication of the
entire contents of the 'Secret'. Eventually, the French Church hierarchy threatened Rome with with the cut off of
"Peter's Pence" (material support for the urgent needs of the Pope) unless the Vatican would agree to curtail officially
the circulation of the 'Secret' (banned in France), even though its dissemination had been favoured by Popes Pius lX and Leo Xlll.

'The Plot Against the Pope; Coup de'tat in the Conclave - 1958
Copyright 1989-2006, by Gary Giuffre'