[Gael]

Can I ask a stupid question? I dont understand how the "glow in the dark" stuff works, nor do I understand any of the technical explainations on this thread (& for the record I couldnt say I believe or disbelieve this without seeing it for myself (call me Thomas!)).

However for those of you that know more about it, does the statue glow as much at the back (the part towards the wall & away from the light)? and is the glow equal all around it...just thinking it would get a different amount of light from either sunshine or flash cameras or whatever light source...the light cannot be equal all around so would the glow not also be unequal? rambling a bit but maybe someone will know what I mean lol.

[johntt]

Following BC's photo, I thought I would add this one from the Medjugorje Today Facebook site:



I will also add that I would agree with the earlier comment about the need for signs being a natural human thing and while Jesus tells us it is better not to need them, He nevertheless does give them to mankind as He did during His public ministry but He expects us to respond to His signs. None of this, of course, tells us whether this statue phenomenon is a sign or not from God.

[bluecross]

Not a stupid question at all, Gael, but one that could give an answer or answers to the mystery.

I would guess that when the phenomenon is tested and examined by experts, this question will be asked. Sometimes mysteries have the most simple of explanations.

If the phenomenon is satisfactory explained by experts and deemed not a miracle or supernatural, then I think a lot of people will learn some lessons from this.

And so when next time someone produces a “miraculous” photo from Medjugorje, be it a light effect or shape in the clouds then people might not be so quick to shout “miracle”.

On the other hand if the light of the statue is deemed as a “miracle” then it could be seen by some as an endorsement for many of the fake photos that some people believe are “miraculous”.

Personally, I feel this kind of thing if found to be false can undermine the effectiveness of the real miracles at Medjugorje. The green statue episode will be used to sow doubt or given as a reason not to accept any genuine miracle.

Good tester for anyone who believes in miracles, the green kind or any other. Do they make us love our neighbour, friend or foe, even more. Faith is not simply about belief. Even the devil believes there is a God.

[bluecross]

Nice photo, John. It’s almost like a negative effect.

[TimHaley]

Can I ask a stupid question? I dont understand how the "glow in the dark" stuff works, nor do I understand any of the technical explainations on this thread (& for the record I couldnt say I believe or disbelieve this without seeing it for myself (call me Thomas!)).

However for those of you that know more about it, does the statue glow as much at the back (the part towards the wall & away from the light)? and is the glow equal all around it...just thinking it would get a different amount of light from either sunshine or flash cameras or whatever light source...the light cannot be equal all around so would the glow not also be unequal? rambling a bit but maybe someone will know what I mean lol.

Gael ... Your question is far from 'stupid'

As a matter of fact, it is an astute and inteligent question. Most people do not understand the physics behind fluorescence. When one doesn't know, the humble reaction is to ask for further understanding to seek knowledge, understanding and wisdom. However, many simply go right to the conclusion of a miracle for those things they don't understand without considering the possibility of an alternative prosaic explanation. This type of reaction borders on superstition. Let's be inquisitive and open to understanding alternative views for those things we don't understand, lest Medjugorje be accused of superstition.

[bluecross]

Nice photo, John. It’s almost like a negative effect.

Which takes me back to one of the first questions I asked when the phenomenon began.

Why doesn’t Our Lady’s face glow, or her hands, or the garland of rosary beads, or the gold beads around her neck, or the sash. or the veil on top of her head, or the crown, or the pieces of glass set in the crown. Why is Our Lady selective in this way in areas of the statue?

I suspect there are two things going on here. First the phosphurus element in the paintwork (generally in white paint areas only), and secondly the light source from below.

Even in the folds of the mantle that drape across Our Lady’s left arm there are shadow areas thrown by the light. The shadow overcomes any glow.

This photo also reveals that the glow IS reflective. The lighter area of Our Lady’s neck, show that light is reaching this area. This can also be seen under her chin and on the left side of her face. Most of this is reflective light thrown back by the glow. We can understand this better when we look at her hands. They are in darkness, except for a small amount of reflective light from her left side.

If the lamp below was projecting the light under the chin, then it would do so on the hands also. Also, there seems no apparent shadows being projected from the hands onto the body.

I don’t know if the image is cropped from a bigger format, so we can’t see how the light falls in the background.

There is another observation about this picture I would like to comment on, but I need to check on a couple of things before I do.

[hawkangel]

Bluecross you are a trip!! All I can say is that we as Christians are very fortunate that Jesus is not walking around today performing his miracles or you would have a field day proving him a fake It must be torturing to be in your shoes....I hope you find true peace.

[johntt]

Nice photo, John. It’s almost like a negative effect

It absolutely is a negative type image. Here is the negative version.

MedjVickaStatueNEG.jpg (118.49 KiB) Viewed 10746 times

[bluecross]

Bluecross you are a trip!! All I can say is that we as Christians are very fortunate that Jesus is not walking around today performing his miracles or you would have a field day proving him a fake It must be torturing to be in your shoes....I hope you find true peace.

Peace needs a dialogue that is... tenacious, patient, strong and intelligent.

Not my words but those spoken by Pope Francis said this week.

[bluecross]

I got the same result John, but what it reveals is not good news for anyone wanting to believe the glow is miraculous...

[ActionReq]

There is billions atoms of glow stuff.
Atoms have electrons in outer shell.
UV light much energy. and hit electron.
Electron absorbs energy, speeds up, electron goes outer shell.
Then if wait short time, (couple billionth of second) electron falls back, emits light fluorescence.
If wait long time, (seconds to minutes) electron falls back, emits light, phosphorescence.
Flash light camera much energy.
UV light just some leds, much more energy. Also nearly invisible.
In above picture just forgot turn off UV source while take picture.
you can make statue glow moving UV source round statue, also glows back.
But maybe Jesus made beam of dispersed sunlight rotate around earth and slip into room.
He can do. But will he? Simple question.

[MedjAdmin]

Bluecross you are a trip!! All I can say is that we as Christians are very fortunate that Jesus is not walking around today performing his miracles or you would have a field day proving him a fake It must be torturing to be in your shoes....I hope you find true peace.

What a rude comment. Again, I ask, why does searching for the truth make some people so angry? Did you even read Our Lady's message today?

It's ok to disagree, but change your tone.

[bluecross]

Sean, it was said with a smile, and I took it as light-hearted.

Check out the neg photo submitted by John. Check the distinctive white marks on the left cuff of the sleeve. They appear black on the pos image.

Similar marks also appear on the right sleeve and can be seen on some of the other photos circulating.

Now when you check the normal daylight images you can see that these are soil marks. They may have actually been chip marks at one time and repainted with some kind of white emulsion and perhaps got stained over time.

But whatever the cause of the stain marks, the don’t glow in the dark, or under UV light. In fact the UV light shows them clearly. (Isn’t UV light used to detect flaws in fake bank notes?)

Anyway, I want to point something else out, three other marks that show up as orange. But you need to look at an image of the statue front on. I’ve clipped one here but the resolution isn’t great. Nevertheless ALL the marks show up when the statue glows. But the stains don’t glow.

The first mark appears just above the bend in the statue’s right arms (where the beads are wrapped around the forearm). The second mark appears orange mark appears slightly higher and to the right, and the third mark is higher still alongside the joined hands.

These marks are prominent and show up as red marks in normal daylight. I can tell you that they have been there for a number of years. I have photos of the statue going back seven years to September 2006. If anyone wants to see a copy I can send it or post on the forum, but I’m holding back on trying to overload this thread with photos.

So in all these blemished areas the statue doesn’t glow. I shan’t say why I think this is. I’ll leave it to the experts. But the question needs to be asked and an answer provided as to why the statue doesn’t glow in these soiled areas (and all the places mentioned in a previous post)

[MedjAdmin]

I'd like to see the photos. Please post.

And regarding the post said with a smile emoticon, I didn't take it as light-hearted, especially the last part of it. But I hope I'm wrong.

Can't we all just get along?

[ActionReq]

Hawkangel just tough guy from Jersey.

[ActionReq]

Make more detective story.
Two light sources. One red, one UV.
Not one from camera focus system.

[bluecross]

Here are two photos showing the red spots... notice also the damage to the tip of the nose.

taken at
18/09/2006 12:06:03 BST
and
18/09/2006 12:06:44 BST

[bluecross]

I’m posting this image just to show that with sliding the RGB filters in photoshop how light can be filtered in the same way to produce green, or any other colour to the eye.

The green glow on the statue is all about light. How light is absorbed by the phosphorus chemical in the surface paint (depending on the colour of the paint, and then glows in the dark, or reacts to UV light in a dark room a box in fact.

This is very similar in principle to how photographic images are produced. Light reacts on a chemical surface, the film, that is pressed to the chemically treated print and exposed to light again. Then the print is treated chemically again, and the positive image produced. And we know that when the print is left in the sunlight over a long period then the chemical in the prints acts again. It oxides and the image disappears.

It’s all about light reacting to chemicals. Just as the statue does.

If John wants to “invert” this green image he will get a similar looking purple negative colour effect he produced earlier.

[johntt]

When I looked at the negative image of the glowing statue of Our Lady, the first thing that came to mind was the Shroud of Turin image. Although the Shroud had long been viewed as an authentic relic, it was only the arrival of photography that showed us the wonderful image we see today and made known the nature of the remarkable gift God had actually given us.

Now let me quickly say that the link between the Shroud and this glowing statue is tenuous but the 'photographic' nature of the glowing image, especially in its negative form, is particularly interesting to me. I have very limited experience of looking at 'luminous' statues or figures but my memory of them suggests that the light they emit tends to be constant in depth. This is because the light they emit is not reflected light but direct light, so that shadows are not significant in how the statue is seen.

I'm not sure if I am making myself clear here but what I am trying to say is that the varying intensity of the folds in Mary's dress show up very strongly in the negative version of the glowing statue whereas a 'luminous' statue would not be expected to show this kind of variation. I am ready to accept I might be quite wrong about this and that someone might be able to come up with a photo of a luminous statue showing the same delicacy of tonal appearence.

I certainly hope the experts who are reportedly going to inspect the statue make some kind of public report fairly quickly. But part of me wonders whether there will be some pressure on the parish to just forget about the whole thing.....

[bluecross]

But part of me wonders whether there will be some pressure on the parish to just forget about the whole thing.....

I’m guessing any response will come from Vicka’s family who has already issued a statement about wanting experts to come up with some kind of analysis. This is because there is a danger that the family may be seen as “manipulating” the phenomenon. So they need to have everything clarified.

The Franciscans will recognise their concern and how damaging to the parish this event could be if it turns out that the glow isn’t miraculous, especially as the statue is owned by one of the seer’s family. So I expect there will be some announcement, be it from the parish authorities or Vicka’s family.

[hawkangel]

That is what I wonder about. What if this statue is deemed to have been manipulated by a human? Does not Vicka pay a heavy price? Damaged reputation? Lost credibility? So why would she or her family try such a thing now? Vicka has had this statue for 30 years (1983). There has been alleged phenomena with this statue before. Some witnessed this statue's eyes turn into human eyes while praying before her. If someone did paint glow in the dark material, it was done with precision and it took a long time I'm sure to get it painted so well. Surely Vicka or her family would have seen that the statue was missing for any length of time. She would have reported the statue missing right? I'm sure that statue means the world to her. Bluecross you would have made a great detective! Sean that was a joke!

[Minnesota Values]

I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but this is how you light up a fishing lure. It's an invention of my brother and his wife called the Lightning Box. The kids in the video are my wonderful grandnephews and niece.

Note, it doesn't take much of a flash to illuminate the lure for hours.

http://fishingjustgotbetter.com

I hope no one takes offense.

[bluecross]

Mmm... taking the bait... Never looked at it that way. Fishing for souls, perhaps? But who?

[ministryvalues]

More on statues .. Got an email from a good friend - Jim Carney. Jim is a Harvard Law graduate, author of a book about Our Lady and the Rosary and an eye witness to the most extraordinary example of weeping statues in the history in the United States. The event is known as the "Seton Miracles" - took place in a D.C. suburban town. Jim wrote a remarkable book about his eye witness experience. Every local TV station covered it, as did the Wash Post and CNN did a report. They had TV footage of the statues crying. At the height of the media frenzy the diocese of Arlington in Virginia issued a proclamation that members of the diocese could not speak of the events. Jim has fought a long battle to get the diocese to investigate the claims. There are thousands of eye witnesses...he has been stonewalled. Anyway with the new sheriff in town, I mean Pope, he has sent his book to the Vatican and a letter requesting for a new investigation...here is an article Jim wrote, called "When Statues Weep"
http://www.ministryvalues.com/index.php ... Itemid=125

I don't mind saying that there is a direct link from the weeping statue event that occurred just a few miles from my home town to medjugorje and my conversion... Two things I know signs and wonders help people find God and apparitions and statues are controversial..Signs and wonders help people (me) find God because sadly, depending on one's parish, the mystery of God, jesus's miracles are often hidden and buried. Signs and wonders remind us of the great mysteries of faith. As Pope Francis said "Without mysticism, religion is just philosophy."

[Mosie]

For the past two weeks I was in Medjugorje and twice went to see the statue that has caused so much news. The first time I went I was so focused on trying to get a picture with my iPad that I really didn't focus on what I was seeing! Also, there were flashes going on of people taking pictures. The second time I left my ipad behind and just looked at the statue and prayed to Our Lady. What I saw was not green at all, but pure white, and as we prayed the white became whiter and brighter. It will be interesting to see what the findings will be. Seeing this did not increase my faith, does not make me believe more, but rather is something interesting, perhaps a message from Our Lady that with prayer the darkness that is so deep in our world will lighten, that prayer is so important for us to see our way, to brighten our path and to shine for others. Pray, pray, pray!