[gtc]

Mammary,

I did not intend to put the blame for this solely on the US, nor am I intending to make Putin a saint here. Far from it. In addition, none of the facts I stated earlier are incorrect. The key to what I said is the deal that Russia and the US made regarding Ukraine after the cold war ended. If The US had told the EU to back off, none of this is likely happening. This is not the US fault solely, the EU has also been involved.

The Ukraine is an interesting mix. The Eastern half is Primarily Pro Russia, while the Western half is Pro West. If the hornet's nest is stirred, it will create an internal conflict.

My hope and prayer is that this ends peacefully, but my fear is that it will not go well, and especially with in the times we are in, that is a very real danger (IE Mary's message on the 25th of January where she states that hatred and war are increasing daily). I have no confidence in our leadership here in the US to move this in the right direction, and that is not helping the situation.

Regarding Putin, God may be using him, but he is no saint. I would not be comfortable if he were my leader. He is too power hungry and manipulates the system for his own personal gain. He is also taking advantage of a President who is weak and is doing whatever he can get away with.

In the end, we need to pray for peace. All of this going on right now does not help, but our faith and hope in God does help.

[mamamary]

UNBELIEVABLE! now you are quoting malachi martin as a viable source?? i seriously hope you are not going to carry on with conspiracy theories about how there is 'more' to the fatima secrets than what the catholic church and sister lucy has revealed. now this topic is really getting absurd.....

again, what you are doing with Our Lady's words do not serve her cause. when she speaks of the russian people coming to glorify God the most, she is not saying that the American people do not. nor does she say that any other country in the world does not glorify God. when she says 'the most' obviously, this means there are other nations who glorify or will come to glorify God as well.

when Our Lady mentions continuing her work at Fatima, this reference infers that She is showing the world that her work is one, that her mission is one and continues with her visits thru the ages. Fatima is closely linked to lourdes, which is strongly linked to LaSallette, which is also tied to Akita. all have similar calling, the message being one of Our Lady coming to her children at a time of spiritual decline, with a message of hope and a reminder that God's love and forgiveness is waiting for us.

[ministryvalues]

I will accept Malachi is a controversial source (though not discredited) but you missed the key point and that is the bishop of Fatima said "The message of Fatima applies to Russia - Russia and Fatima are one."

The source is the great friend of Medjugorje and Pope John Paul II - Bishop Hnilica
http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/ ... nilica.htm

I will say it again: if Russia was the key element to Fatima (it was) why is it so preposterous to think that Russia is not tied to Medjugorje in some important way given Our Lady;s prophecy regarding the future of Russia?

Also importantly. The second part of Our lady's prophecy that "The west has made civilization progress but without God and act as if they our their own creator." is very significant. First Our Lady speaks of the "West". I find this interesting in that the conflict in Ukraine is universally described as a conflict between the 'West" and Russia. Second a strong argument can be made that the 'West" has moved God out of the town square and with the West's confidence in technology and science the notion that the West act's "as if they are their own creator' seems prophetic as well.

from the Wall Street Journal 2/11/2015

Events in Ukraine have given rise to the most acute hostility between the West and Russia since the days of the Cold War

[ActionReq]

I think it is as simple as:

Putin has absolutely no power while everyone
thinks that Putin is in charge.
It looks like he is in charge, but he isn't.

And Putin can't admit that he has no power in public,
because that may cause total chaos.

Then Merkel and Holande go and speak with Putin.
They can as well go and talk to Dalai Lama.
It will not change the situation in Ukraine.

And the international communion criticize that
the krim was annexed. It was 95% auto annexed.
Nothing wrong with that. They wanted it themselves,.

That annexation is used by western politics to
show Putin is a bad guy.

Putin may be a bad guy or a good guy, it doesn't
matter. Everybody there does whatever he thinks
best. There is no leader in Russia.

[mamamary]

i didn't miss your point, ministryvalues, but you are missing the boat. if the fatima bishop feels that 'russia and fatima are one' is his opinion. he is not infallible, nor does he even know or fully understand the full divine purpose of fatima. no doubt, some parts of the fatima message involved russia's conversion as the prophecy has proven. this is part of what made fatima an apparition worthy of belief. however, where you 'miss the boat' is that--like medjugorje--you are missing the main focus of the message of fatima. as medjugorje's message is conversion, confession and sacraments. fatima's message was a plan for inner peace as well. it was a message of amending lives, devotion to rosary, returning to the sacraments. in fact, one could say that the whole message of fatima was and is a continuation of the messages from the major apparitions in church history. all the apparitions of our lady are one, as her messages are in concert with the gospels and God's plan for conversion of his people. you are picking thru grains of sands looking for some secret 'clues' in our lady's words, yet ignore the main focus of her work and her words.

at the same time, you disparage the US, american and christian worshipers of other nations as being' less than' whatever the con man Putin pretends his country to be. it is not known when in the Divine Plan Russia will come to know the kind of grace which will lead her to be closest to God's peace. if it is to occur in 10 years, 100 years or 500 years, it is not for us to worry. the message of our lady of fatima, of atika, of medjuorje, of lourdes was one of conversion of the individual NOW to know God's love. that is the main revelation of these apparitions, one that is completely skirted by in this whole discussion. what a shame.

[ministryvalues]

The "Christian" element of Putin and Russia...This is the best article i have see so far about Russia/religion and Putin.

Putin’s Orthodox Jihad

Last night on BBC Radio I heard a Russian soldier who is fighting in Ukraine describe what he and his colleagues are doing there as fighting “a holy war” for Mother Russia.

Nearly all Western experts, being mostly secularists when not atheists, paid no attention to these clear indications of where Putin was taking Russia, while the view of the few who did notice was colored by the perception that this simply had to be a put-up job by the Kremlin. But what if it is not?

In his ) Putin's fire-breathing speech to the Duma in March when he announced Russia’s annexation of Crimea, Putin included not just venerable KGB classics like warnings about the Western Fifth Column and “national traitors,” but also paeans to explicit Russian ethnic nationalism buttressed by Orthodox mysticism, with citations of saints from millennia past. This was the culmination of years of increasingly unsubtle hints from Putin and his inner circle that what ideologically motivates this Kremlin is the KGB cult unified with Russian Orthodoxy. Behind the Chekist sword and shield lurks the Third Rome, forming a potent and, to many Russians, plausible worldview. That this take on the planet and its politics is intensely anti-Western needs to be stated clearly.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... dox-jihad/


Putin believes he is in a religious conflict with the West..This is a real thing and it is not going away.

I have a different view of Fatima and Medjugorje. Yes they are both about prayer and conversion. But both Fatima and Medjugorje have secrets with "warnings" attached to the apparitions. Fatima was a warning about atheism (Russia would error) the result WWII and the spread of communism which would result in the greatest slaughter of humanity in history (China/Russia/Famine in Ukrains and of course Nazi's)
I think to see Medjugorje only as a place of conversion is white washing a fundemental element of Medjugorje and that is Medjugorje like Fatima is about secrets, warnings and potential "chastisements"

The establishment of planetary Satanic rule. What’s occurring here is the very beginning of a global war. Not for resources or territory, that’s secondary. This is a war for the destruction of true Christianity, Orthodoxy. The worldview of the wealthiest men who own almost all the material goods in the world is Satanism. Having summoned the elements of the First and Second World Wars and a Third Information War, and having laid hundreds of millions of the slain at the altar of their father, Satan, they have initiated the Fourth World War. They are intentionally hastening the reign of Antichrist.

this good as well
From cold war to hot war
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/ ... frontation

[gtc]

Stephen,

Interesting article in the American Conservative. I am not sure I agree with all that is in there, but the general direction of the article is something I agree with, in that Putin is definitely allowing religion to play a major role in its country. Also alarming is the State Department pushing LGBT and feminist agendas to weaker Eastern European countries. Really? What does that have to do with foreign policy? To me, that shows how dysfunctional Washington has become. When we worry more about political agendas like that in our foreign policy, we are in big trouble. I wonder how much of that is brought on by our current president and how much of it is institutional.

What gives me hope in the US is that we have many, many people who still pray for our country to move it in the right direction. My hope is that in the long run, this will win out.

[ministryvalues]

Tensions with Russia could blow up into all-out conflict, posing “an existential threat to our whole being”, Britain’s top general in Nato has warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... dshaw.html

But Sir Adrian, one of the most senior generals in the British Army and a former director of special forces, went further and said there was also danger that Russia could use conventional forces and Soviet-era brinkmanship to seize Nato territory.

[ministryvalues]

Vladimir Putin: War with Ukraine would be 'apocalyptic'
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/24/europe/uk ... index.html

From the Daily Beast : Ukraine Rebels Praise the Lord While Russia Passes the Ammunition

"On the front lines of the worst fighting here since World War II."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ition.html

“We are beating Ukrainians because Jesus is with us"

Military music blasted out as a cossack dressed in black and a leather-clad rocker carried an icon of the Virgin Mary with Jesus onto a stage to mark Russia's "Defender of the Fatherland Day", originally a celebration of the mighty Soviet Red Army.

At the Debaltseve checkpoint the rebels under the Jesus flag also talked about apocalypse.

[ministryvalues]

Vladimir Putin and President of Cyprus exchange Icons of the Virgin Mary
The Russian president Vladimir Putin presented Anastasiades with a 17th century icon of the Virgin Mary and a letter written by EOKA leader Georgios Grivas, following the Zurich-London agreements in 1959.

The Cyprus president in turn gave Putin an icon of the Virgin Mary.

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/02/26/our-t ... ry-anyone/

Why does this matter? Does this have anything to do with Medjugorje?

Interview with Mirjana in Medjugorje
A talk (question and answer session) given by Mirjana in the Oasis of Peace on 3rd October 2009
Q: Has Our Lady said anything about other apparitions?
Answer: "Only about Fatima. She said, "What I have started in Fatima I will finish in Medjugorje. My heart will triumph." I cannot go into details. That's the only apparition she mentioned aside from Medjugorje."

(note: I am agnostic on Putin - He could be a decent Christian man of peace or "The instrument of chastisement" - I don't know and I am not an apologist for Russia. Putin, like most Russians , does seem to have an interest in Icons of the Virgin Mary. My interest in this topic is the connection between Fatima and Medjugorje and understanding what exactly is meant by Our Lady's promise of "My heart will triumph" and how that idea manifests itself.)

[maryannlucy]

http://news.yahoo.com/kindergarten-kids ... 17751.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/world ... .html?_r=0

[mamamary]

again, ministryvalues, you are being suckered in by putin's showmanship. so he parades around some banners with the virgin mary on them. so what? to him, it means nothing. he is playing into the average russian who has a catholic background. if he were so uber-catholic, he would not have dumped his wife and made off with a much younger russian gymnast, would he? he's disgusting. i am appalled that anyone speaks so flowery and naively of this KGB con man.

[ministryvalues]

Hi Mamamary,

As I said I am agnostic on Putin. But with that said I think we should not forget

1. USA Invasion of Iraq with the result being 100,000 innocent civilians - women and children dead and now we have ISIL capturing Christians and be-heading them. Do Americans care that we destroyed that country?

2.Libya (Hillary's War as it is being called) Another ruined country with ISIL running the show.

3. Syria. John McCain and Lindsey Graham were beating the drums to arm the "Rebels" and bomb the Syrian gov. It turns out the rebels were ISIL and responsible for conducting genocide on Syrian Christian. It was only after Putin strongly urged Obama not to bomb the Syrian government that has kept more people from dying.

American foreign policy has led to unspeakable violence against innocent people simply because we did not like their leaders. We destroy countries without ANY plan to maintain order or action to save innocent lives. Nobody wants to see it, or admit it, or believe it, but it is morally reprehensible. (evil?)

You may want to think for a moment that Putin sees it very much this way. He sees the hypocrisy of America telling Russia how to be a good neighbor. How many people died in the annexation of Crimea? Crimea is perfectly happy with the result. Crimea has been Russian for centuries and guys like John McCain the Republican nomination for President think it is Hitler invading Czechoslovakia all over again.

Yesterday a Chinese diplomat "tells West to consider Russia's security concerns over Ukraine" "The West should abandon the zero-sum mentality, and take the real security concerns of Russia into consideration," "The United States is unwilling to see its presence in any part of the world being weakened "

Perhaps if America put its "Big boy pants on" fewer people would have died in Ukraine.

The fact is America has been so wrong in so many places. Why is it now that we are suddenly right when it comes to Russia? Maybe Russia has legitimate security concerns.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/r-chines ... z3T37ezVJS[/quote]

Note: As a reminder this thread has to do with Russia's prominent role in the Fatima secrets and the strange message from the Queen on Peace about the Russian people's future relationship with God and the "West's" pursuit of civilization progress but without God.

This post is not meant to be political but rather my attempt to see the world as revealed by Our Lady through her messages at Fatima and Medjugorje. (medjugorje is the continuation and fulfillment of Fatima)

"My heart will triumph"


Just heard about the assassination of Russian opposition leader Nemtsov. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko called Nemtsov a personal friend and a "bridge" between the two countries"

As I said I am agnostic on Putin. One thing I do know is that he storm clouds between the West and Russia are only getting darker.

[ministryvalues]

Never seen this before.

New documents and research on Fatima.

http://www.thecatholicthing.org/2015/06 ... l-chapter/

Turns out Jesus spoke of the importance of the consecration of Russia as well

1936: Our Lord explained the necessity that the official consecration of Russia be carried out by the Holy Father and the whole Church; and that it will be done, although late.

It is a very interesting article .. Also it is a reminder that visionaries of "approved apparitions" like Fatima received messages for decades - no different than Medjugorje . Most Catholics including "experts" think the visions of Mary ended after the miracle of the sun. Very depressing to read criticisms of Medjugorje because the visions have lasted "so long" the experts add - "not like other apparitions" - they are almost always referring to Fatima.

[gtc]

Stephen,

Thank you for sharing this. Good stuff.

[ministryvalues]

Spirit Daily is linking to story

"Bishop says Russian invasion of Ukraine looks inevitable 'and only a miracle can save us"

Catholic Bishop in Ukraine "It will be a miracle if Russia doesn't decide on a total invasion - the American intelligence services and Nato have warned we must be ready for such a scenario at any moment,” said Mgr Jan Sobilo, auxiliary bishop of Kharkiv-Zaporizhia. “If it happens, and Russia attacks Ukraine, this will be a Europe-wide, if not worldwide, problem. Millions of desperate refugees will have no prospect other than escape to the West.”

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/2267/0/ ... inevitable

[Angelica]

I would like to just go back to the beginning of this thread for a moment. It was mentioned that the connection between Fatima and Russia was not clearly understood-Why does Our Lady speak of Russia? There is a little known book called "AA 1025" written by Marie Carre and published by Tan books. A fascinating book everyone should read. It explains the destruction of the Catholic Church by Russia. AA stands for anti-apostle. The anti-apostle in this book was the 1025th. The story regards Communism and its infiltration into the Catholic Church for its ultimate destruction:

"In the 1960's a French nurse, Marie Carre, attended an auto-crash victim who was brought into her hospital in a city she purposely does not name. The man lingered there near death for a few hours and then died. He had no identification on him, but he had a briefcase in which there was a set of quasi-autobiographical notes. She kept these notes and read them, and because of their extraordinary content, decided to publish them.

The result is this little book, AA-1025 Memoirs of the Communist Infiltration Into the Church, a strange and fascinating account of a Communist who purposely entered the Catholic priesthood along with many others, with the intent to subvert and destroy the Church from within. His strange yet fascinating and illuminating set of biographical notes, tells of his commission to enter the priesthood, his experiences in the seminary, and the means and methods he used and promoted to help effect from within the auto-dissolution of the Catholic Church.

The result is this little book, AA-1025 Memoirs of the Communist Infiltration Into the Church, a strange and fascinating account of a Communist who purposely entered the Catholic priesthood along with many others, with the intent to subvert and destroy the Church from within. His strange yet fascinating and illuminating set of biographical notes, tells of his commission to enter the priesthood, his experiences in the seminary, and the means and methods he used and promoted to help effect from within the auto-dissolution of the Catholic Church." (from Amazon website)

Could this be part of why Russia is so central to Our Lady's messages and call to conversion? I think it plays a very heavy role along with the political situation. Just my thought.

[gtc]

Angelica,

Thank you for sharing this. That is very interesting.

[kim52]

Mammary I agree with your sentiments on Putin. I wish he would ride shirtless on his horse off into the sunset.

[ministryvalues]

Are the secrets beginning to unfold?

We are now at a special time in history. Today, the world seems to be on fire – ISIS, Ukraine, Syria, Russia, North Korea, are just some examples of a world gone mad. We are now witnessing unprecedented upheaval, a drama around the world …a real drama of what the world has never before seen the likes.

http://mysticpost.com/2015/08/21/crisis ... unfolding/

For what it is worth this article is popular on Facebook with over 200 "likes" and is making its way around the Internet.

[irish m]

Stephen Malachi Martin maybe it is 2018 that our ladys immaculate heart will Triumph didn't our lady say something to Mirjana about the 18th or 18 I can't remember what that was about just thinking out loud just a thought
GOD Bless irish m

[ministryvalues]

Hi Irish m
I have heard that march 18 is an important date.

Also oct 13 2017 is the 100 year anniversary of the Fatima miracle of the sun.

[ministryvalues]

from spirit daily today

Pat Buchanan
Both U.S. and Catholicism in crisis

America is a different country today, a secular and post-Christian nation on its way to becoming anti-Christian. Some feel like strangers in their own land. And from the standpoint of traditional Catholicism, American culture is an open sewer. A vast volume of the traffic on the Internet is pornography.

Ironically, as all this unfolds in what was once “God’s country,” Vladimir Putin seeks to re-establish Eastern Orthodox Christianity as the basis of morality and law in Russia.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/both-u-s-and ... sis/print/

[gtc]

Steve,

Thanks for posting the article. I am on the same page with a lot of what he says about the US. Not so much about what he is saying about the Church, as I am processing what is going on.

[ministryvalues]

Washington Post
"The Christian zeal behind Russia’s war in Syria"

On Wednesday, a statement from the Russian Orthodox Church praised the Russian war effort, describing the mission to fight the jihadists of the Islamic State as a "holy battle."


"The fight with terrorism is a holy battle and today our country is perhaps the most active force in the world fighting it," said the head of the church's public affairs department, Vsevolod Chaplin, in a quote reported by Interfax news agency and translated by Agence France Presse.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... -in-syria/