Chat with other believers about Medjugorje.

Moderators: TimHaley, MedjAdmin, Management

#212115
Stephen,

“Putin has a devotion to Jesus Christ and Our Lady...”

Really?

“Catholics and other Christians in the west who support the agenda of President Putin ought to be aware that this agenda is not really a religious one at all, but rather one that uses religion as a useful cover for ends which are hardly religious, indeed profoundly anti-religious. Mr Putin’s regime is authoritarian, anti-democratic, opposed to all freedom of expression, aggressive to its neighbours, expansionist, and, let us not forget, not disposed to respect treaties that Russia itself has signed up to. It supports tyrannies beyond Russia, and has no compunction about shedding blood in Chechnya and elsewhere. Catholics who support Mr Putin (who do not of course live in Russia, where his regime’s popularity relies on a state-controlled media, and who have little idea what life in Russia is really like) are being used by the Russian dictator. Moreover, Putin’s anti-Westernism contains within it a profound anti-Catholicism, so Catholics who express admiration for Putin are in fact idolising an anti-Catholic, if they but knew it.”
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/comment ... tholicism/
#212116
This is a Medjugorje forum and I want to again say my posts are not personal ramblings. They come from Saints and Our Lady the Queen of Peace.

Padre Pio said Russia would teach a lesson to America about conversion. Our Lady at Fatima said Russia would convert. The consecration according to Saint JPII took place in 1984. How does one interpret this? What is this supposed to mean?

Before Our Lady came to Medjugorje, Padre Pio had told a group of pilgrims who were visiting him from the diocese of Mostar: “The Blessed Virgin Mary will soon be visiting your homeland."


http://ministryvalues.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=318

.
#212119
Steven and Stephen,

You may both be right.

There is no question that the church in Russia is going through a revival. On the surface, it would appear that Putin is pushing this along. He is an interesting study in character. His strong arm tactics certainly don't look Christian. On the other hand, he has been one of the loudest voices calling for an end to the persecution of Christians in the middle east, which is getting little press coverage (at least here in the US) while Obama has done little or nothing to push for an end to this.

I am skeptical that his motives are purely Christian. His actions don't speak to the purest form of Christianity. But who is to say that God can't use him? Even if his motives are not in line with God, it may be that the church in Russia will evolve while his motives that are not in line with God will fail. Ultimately, Russia will convert. It's the details that are sketchy.
#215518
Today's Drudge Report Headline.. The small headline to the right "Google to make computer chips that think like humans."

Image

Sept 2, 2014
But, I am also the mother of those of you who do not accept me and who, in the hardness of your hearts, do not desire to come to know the love of my Son. And you do not know how much my heart suffers and how much I pray to my Son for you. I pray to Him to heal your souls because He can do so. I pray to Him to illuminate you with the miracle of the Holy Spirit so that you may stop, always anew, betraying, cursing and wounding Him.
#216748
(This is a very interesting article, that I believe illustrates the cultural religious divide between the 'West" and Russia - this is pertinent to Medjugorje in that Medjugorje is the continuation and fulfillment of Fatima)

read it here on Slate
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ingle.html

God’s Oligarch


If being the subject of international sanctions is causing Konstantin Malofeev any stress, he’s not showing it.

“The sanctions are a very stupid instrument that only Obama and his administration could believe will have any impact. It has not damaged my business,” he says.

The 40-year-old multimillionaire, though, does allow that the sanctions have “had some impact on my personal movements. I cannot go on vacation in the Alps. This weekend, my Greek friend who invited me to be the best man at his wedding had to come to me to have his wedding with 90 Greeks, instead of me going to him. That’s the impact that it had.”

The reason Malofeev’s Greek friend had to be so accommodating is that he has been accused by Ukraine’s government of financing the rebels in eastern Ukraine on behalf of the Russian government. Both Alexander Borodai, the former prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, and Igor Strelkov, formerly one of the main commanders of the rebel forces, are ex-Malofeev employees. Malofeev himself is now subject to sanctions from the EU and Canada—though not the United States, despite his distaste for Obama—including a travel ban and a freeze on his foreign assets.

Sitting in a conference room decorated with Orthodox icons in his Moscow office, Malofeev dismisses accusations that he has provided any weapons to the rebels. “We have an agreement between the Donetsk People’s Republic and my foundation,” he says, but “it’s only food, medicine, and other things that could be used only for humanitarian purposes.”

Malofeev’s involvement in Ukraine may be what attracted the attention of Western governments, but that’s not the only reason he warrants scrutiny. In many ways the deeply religious private equity maven personifies Western liberals’ worst fears about Russia’s recent turn toward nationalism and social conservatism. With close ties to the president’s inner circle, he also represents a new type of power player that has emerged since Putin’s return to the presidency
.

At a time when the Russian government has been making life difficult for unruly oligarchs, Malofeev—intensely conservative, patriotic to a fault—is the type of businessman who’s well-positioned to prosper. But while he may at first look like just another Putin crony, his views are actually much more extreme than those of the typical loyalist, and much stranger.

Malofeev, who’s been called “Putin’s Soros” for his close ties to the Kremlin elite, certainly isn’t alone in being a staunch supporter of Russia’s crackdown on “gay propaganda.” As much as anyone in Russia, he’s put his money where his mouth is, sponsoring conferences on traditional family values attended by gay marriage opponents from the U.S. and Europe. “An adult person can choose the own way he wants to entertain himself in the bedroom,” he tells me. “But the state and taxpayers should not support teaching children different ways of sexual perversion. “

“We the Russian people are a divided nation, just as the Germans were after the Second World War.”

He is also adamant that the Russian people must be protected from perversion online. The Safe Internet League, of which he is one of the primary backers, successfully lobbied for the creation of an Internet blacklist law that went into effect in 2012.

The law, billed as a crackdown on child pornography and other illegal material, was criticized by human rights groups as a potential prelude to greater online censorship. (To wit, videos by the bandPussy Riot have been blocked within Russia on the grounds that they are “extremist” content, and there is now a controversial law requiring bloggers to register with the authorities.) But the father of three says these fears are overblown and that the law was purely meant to protect children. Prior to the legislation’s passage, “there was not any limit on the Internet in Russia and the Russian Internet was the most dirty Internet in any developed country,” he says. “It was full of pedophiles, child pornography, drugs, suicide.” He described Russia’s control over the Internet as “very light” compared with that of the United States.

Malofeev, whose St. Basil the Great Foundation is the country’s largest Orthodox charity, says that these cultural issues don’t stop at Russia’s borders. His mission is larger than just restoring Orthodoxy in Russia. Rather, it’s a global struggle.

“Just as Christians in the West in Ronald Reagan’s time helped us against the evil of communism, we now have to return our debt to Christians who are suffering under totalitarianism in the West,” he says. “This so-called liberalism, tolerance, and freedom, these are just words, but behind them you can see the totalitarianism.”

Asked for examples of this totalitarianism, he cites legal battles over U.S. businesses not providing flowers or cakes for gay weddings and the use of tear gas against anti-gay-marriage protesters in France. “We saw all of this in the 1920s in the Soviet Union. We know how it starts when the protection of minorities becomes the policy of the state,” he says.

Malofeev sees the conflict in Ukraine in the context of this international culture war. He says the ousted government of President Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign an association agreement with the EU last year in part due to concerns over regulations enforcing tolerance for gay rights. “For Ukrainians, who are a very traditional society, this propaganda for untraditional values was extremely unacceptable,” he says.

His involvement in the Ukraine conflict began in January 2014 under somewhat bizarre circumstances. Malofeev had been traveling with a church delegation bringing holy relics on a tour through Belarus and Ukraine when his plane was diverted and forced to land in Crimea. Weeks before the territory was annexed by Russia, thousands turned out to view the relics, but Malofeev denies the trip had any political intent. “We are all Orthodox. There is nothing political about that,” he says.

Malofeev, who founded his firm Marshall Capital in 2005, has only very recently become a well-known figure. He is often associated with a group of well-connected Orthodox figures, including Russian Railways head and close Putin ally Vladimir Yakunin, as well as Igor Schyogolev, a Putin aide and former minister of telecommunications. Schyogolev held that position when Malofeev acquired by far his most lucrative asset, a 10 percent stake in the state-controlled telecoms group Rostelecom.

Putin himself has made his devout faith a major component of his public persona: The Russian president has surrounded himself with religious advisers, and has made some comments about the West’s lack of Christian values that aren’t that far off from Malofeev’s arguments. But the Orthodox oligarch dismisses the idea that his very public faith has been good for business, pointing out that he was Orthodox long before it became fashionable among the Russian elite. “I didn’t come to Orthodoxy so I could get connections. Connections came to me because I am Orthodox,” he says.

In any event, Malofeev says his business interests are now in the hands of professional asset managers. “Because you cannot serve Mammon and God simultaneously, I decided two years ago that I needed to stop with my financial activities.”

The sanctions, which don’t appear likely to be lifted anytime soon, don’t appear to be hampering those financial activities. In addition to his foundations and a religious school he founded near Moscow, the oligarch has a number of new ventures in the pipeline.

He has teamed with a French developer to build two “Tsargrad” theme parks in Crimea that will present a family-friendly recounting of Russian history. He’s also developing Tsargrad TV, a cable network—for now it’s just a YouTube channel—that will provide a conservative Orthodox perspective on the news. “We want to build up [a network based on] Orthodox principles the way Fox News was built,” he says. “We want to show the news in the way that Orthodox people, who are 70 to 80 percent of the population, see it.” (Jack Hanick, a former Fox News employee, will be a producer for the network.) I ask if Russia’s existing TV networks aren’t conservative enough. “Aren’t Orthodox enough,” he counters.

Like the theme parks, the network is an attempt to provide an explicitly religious perspective he feels is missing from Russia’s media landscape. Malofeev believes that if “50 percent of the country [attended] the church not only for Easter but for every Sunday, a lot of things would change. Corruption would disappear immediately.” (The current number of weekly church attendees is close to 3 percent.)

But his goals go beyond making Russia a more religious society. A self-described monarchist, he favors a full return of the Russian Empire, including the restoration of the czar.

“Monarchies have been alive in history for thousands of years,” he says. “Republics, just for several centuries, yet we assume that monarchies belong to the past and republics to the future.” He points out that seven of the 10 wealthiest countries in the world are monarchies. (The exceptions: Switzerland, Singapore, and the United States. Malofeev evidently wasn't counting the tiny republic of San Marino.)

For Malofeev, the Russian Empire is both a cultural idea—he speaks approvingly of Russia’s pre-communist birth-rate of seven children per family in contrast to today’s demographic decline—and a geopolitical one.

“The current borders [of the Russian Federation] reflect the revolution of 1991 and the revolution of 1917,” he says. “We the Russian people are a divided nation, just as the Germans were after the Second World War. We are the biggest divided nation in the world.” He declines to comment on how the borders should be redrawn.

When asked if he expects the monarchy to be restored anytime soon, he responds: “I lived in Soviet Union. We would never have believed that we would have the regime that we have now.”



Read more: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... z3GobOHL3X
#216812
Another very good article.

Sadly, I think the comment on the west (I am speaking for the US) and their faith is true. I believe we have lost our moral compass, and the prospects are not good. It looks like what was claimed the Padre Pio said looks to be true unless there is some type of dramatic turnaround.
#217300
"Medjugorje is the Continuation and Fulfillmeny of Fatima"... Bishop of Fatima: "Russia and Fatima are one"

"RUSSIA TO DECLARE USA ADVERSARY"High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/31e95c5e-68b8 ... z3Iig5rG3T

Russia’s updated military doctrine is expected to target Nato and the US more clearly as the Ukraine crisis has frayed Moscow’s relations with the western alliance. The current doctrine lists only Nato expansion, foreign troop deployments in neighbouring states, destabilisation in certain countries and deployment of missile defence systems as “external military dangers”.
People familiar with the document said Nato and the US would be openly designated as threats or adversaries in the document’s new version, due to be published next month.


http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/31e95c5e ... z3IdILbFWs

Russia’s ‘dangerous military brinkmanship’ risks ‘catastrophic’ clash with NATO, report warns
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/10 ... ort-warns/
#218687
The Economist: “In the absence of political dialogue, with mutual mistrust reaching historical highs, the probability of unintended accidents, including those involving nuclear weapons, is getting more and more real.”

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... l-rhetoric

Gorbachev: Ukraine could explode into 'hot war' between Russia and the West

Mikhail Gorbachev, the Soviet Union’s last leader and widely credited for helping end the cold war, today blamed the West and the US in particular for “dragging” Russia into what he says could be a larger, “hot war” over Ukraine.

"Unfortunately I cannot say for sure that a cold war won't lead to a 'hot' one,” Mr. Gorbachev was quoted. “I fear they could take the risk.”

In comments to Interfax news service, Mr. Gorbachev weighed in on the Ukraine crisis, which has taken more than 5,000 lives since the spring, saying an American thirst for “dominance” is behind the crisis.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security ... d-the-West
#218779
Hi Mamamary,

I think the important point here is that there is a clear conflict - a dangerous conflict - emerging between the West and Russia. USA is now contemplating supplying Ukraine with "lethal" weapons and anti-tank missiles.

THE TESTIMONY OF BISHOP HNILICA ( great friend of Medjugorje and Saint John Paul II)
"The message of Fatima applies to Russia. Fatima and Russia are one."
http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/ ... nilica.htm


The Queen of Peace August 25, 1991

"Dear Children! Today also I invite you to prayer, now as never before when my plan has begun to be realized. satan is strong and wants to sweep away my plans of peace and joy and make you think that my Son is not strong in His decisions. Therefore, I call all of you, dear children, to pray and fast still more firmly. I invite you to self-renunciation for nine days so that, with your help, everything that I desire to realize through the secrets I began in Fatima, may be fulfilled. I call you, dear children, to now grasp the importance of my coming and the seriousness of the situation. I want to save all souls and present them to God. Therefore, let us pray that everything I have begun be fully realized. Thank you for having responded to my call."

The secrets at Medjugorje will be tied to Russia just as the secrets of Fatima are tied to Russia.

"I have come to understand that the only way to save the world from war, to save it from atheism, is the conversion of Russia according to the message of Fatima." — Pope John Paul II,
#218816
Hi Mammary,

To add some insight into what is going on, part of this does fall on the US.

When the cold war ended, there was an agreement between the US and the Soviets that Ukraine would remain neutral, and thus independent. What has happened recently is that the EU has been trying to lobby to get Ukraine in, and that has upset the apple cart.

What the US could have done (and did not) was to tell the EU to back off, but they did not. So Putin was being backed into a corner knowing the original agreement was being violated, and he responded.

Now it is beginning to look like what may eventually happen is Ukraine becomes two countries, one that ends up being part of Russia, and the other, that ends up likely being in the EU. Getting there will likely be ugly.

To me, Gorbachev really doesn't matter here. And on a side note, his role in ending the cold war was because he tried to continue failed policies, and they failed, so it hastened the end of the cold war (for some reason he is looked at as a hero, I still don't understand that). Reagan and Pope John Paul II had much more to do with the end of the cold war, but that is a topic of discussion for elsewhere.

To tie this to the spiritual element, and this is really looking at this from a more macro point of view, we can see Godly and Satanic influences at play and how the decisions being made are causing this to play out. The decisions being made are creating conflict and not driving us towards peace. This is not good, and I believe not moving us towards the peace that Mary speaks of and God desires for us. Further, I do not have confidence in the leaders of the West to change that direction. I have made comments about Putin earlier in this thread, so I won't repeat them here, except to point out that I think God may have more influence with him than many of the key leaders in the West. I do not take comfort in that. Hopefully that will change.
#218917
gtc wrote:Hi Mammary,

To add some insight into what is going on, part of this does fall on the US.

When the cold war ended, there was an agreement between the US and the Soviets that Ukraine would remain neutral, and thus independent. What has happened recently is that the EU has been trying to lobby to get Ukraine in, and that has upset the apple cart.

What the US could have done (and did not) was to tell the EU to back off, but they did not. So Putin was being backed into a corner knowing the original agreement was being violated, and he responded.

Now it is beginning to look like what may eventually happen is Ukraine becomes two countries, one that ends up being part of Russia, and the other, that ends up likely being in the EU. Getting there will likely be ugly.

To me, Gorbachev really doesn't matter here. And on a side note, his role in ending the cold war was because he tried to continue failed policies, and they failed, so it hastened the end of the cold war (for some reason he is looked at as a hero, I still don't understand that). Reagan and Pope John Paul II had much more to do with the end of the cold war, but that is a topic of discussion for elsewhere.

To tie this to the spiritual element, and this is really looking at this from a more macro point of view, we can see Godly and Satanic influences at play and how the decisions being made are causing this to play out. The decisions being made are creating conflict and not driving us towards peace. This is not good, and I believe not moving us towards the peace that Mary speaks of and God desires for us. Further, I do not have confidence in the leaders of the West to change that direction. I have made comments about Putin earlier in this thread, so I won't repeat them here, except to point out that I think God may have more influence with him than many of the key leaders in the West. I do not take comfort in that. Hopefully that will change.
gtc, to pin any of the crimean crisis on the US is just ludicrous. offering up excuses, as if putin was some how backed into a corner and 'forced to act' is just another example of how blame always is pinned on the US. people who do this, in my opinion, are just fooled by the anti west attitude that is dominant in russia. it is a political game to paint the russians and their diety leader putin as more holy, more religious and stronger than the corrupt USA. russian tv viewers may buy into this propaganda, but anyone else should easily see thru this ruse.
#218921
Hi Mamamary,

I have always seen things in similar ways with you but I disagree on your point that USA and the "West" had no roll in the Ukraine / Crimea crisis.
First it is worth remembering that Ukraine had a freely elected President before the Crimea crisis. After the elected President made a large economic deal with Russia and Putin bringing Ukraine closer to Russia, western leaning Ukrainians protested. These protests were supported by the US. The US did not support the electoral process. Ultimately the freely elected President stepped down (to avoid more bloodshed). Putin has made this point consistently but it is completely ignored by USA media. USA has a right to defend itself, Israel (think Gaza) has a right to defend itself. Russia legitimately believes USA and the west are an existential threat to Russia's culture. If USA would simply accept / acknowledge Russia's deep sense of patriotism, pride and love of their culture we would not have this conflict. Most American think we defeated the Nazis. Russians understand that 40,000,000 citizens died defending their country against the Nazis. Russians liberated Jews from Auschwitz. Eastern Ukraine is basically all Russians. American neocons like John McCain and Lindsey Graham are fools (as they were when they led the charge to arm Syrian "rebels" who turned out to be ISIS) in thinking that Ukraine's current borders are something to risk WWIII over. All Russia wants is mutual respect but USA is too arrogant to view the world that way.

The question that is never asked in the USA is 'What if USA had supported the freely elected / Russian leaning President in Ukraine?" I am guessing Crimea would still be part of Ukraine. The problem is USA wants to export its culture to the world and Russia does not want that - at least not in their country.
#218935
ministryvalues, i think you are completely overlooking the impact of the failing russian economy here. 'western leaning' ukrainians were doing so because they did not want to tie themselves to an utterly disastrous russian economy! pure and simple--they wanted to move away from the old school communist and socialist control and a more successful type of economy, capitalism! the notion that the USA 'exports' capitalism is bogus. other countries want a system like ours because it works, and their old ones do not. can you BLAME them for not wanting to get back in the old USSR way of thinking? again, this is russian propoganda at work. they try to make their citizens believe they are better than westerners, more 'holy' and 'tougher' because they have to endure many hardships and struggles. anyone buying into putin's BS and sideshow is just falling for that propoganda. it's offensive when people try to tack this negative type of thinking on the USA. when JPII worked to pull communist countries apart to make communism fall, (again this is away from a russian dominated society to a free, 'western' type of society) everyone calls him a saint. ukrainians are not dummies. they don't want to get back into a failed economy, these countries want freedom, a free economy and capitalism. pin all the negative adjectives you want on it, but if it didn't work, we wouldn't have the rest of the world beating down our doors trying to immigrate in. i think what you are doing here, trying to whitewash putin as some kind of 'morality hero' or 'policeman for the cause of Good' just shows how easily people can be duped by one more soviet dictator's lies.
#218936
looking back over this thread, i am really shocked at how the US and Russia are described. any american who is on this forum should be very offended.

RUSSIA is---wants mutual respect, completely justified in their role in the crimean crisis, deep sense of pride, patriotism and love of culture, God is working thru putin, putin feels influenced by God, Russians have a 'spiritual resurrection' ,

the USA is---a threat to russian 'culture', neocons, fools, arrogant, exports our 'culture', failed to control the UN, decisions made by US leaders create conflict, no confidence in the leaders of the west, God has no influence in our leaders decisions, Americans THIRST for dominance, there is a great cultural and religious divide between the US and Russia (meaning that the russians are more moral and religious than americans)

i am sorry, but these absurd and offensive comparisons go on and on in this thread. this has nothing at all to do with Our Lady's words, Russia's conversion from communism or anything to do with the fulfillment of the Fatima message. this all is just a gross distortion of Her words and message.
#218937
This topic will keep cropping up because of arguments over whether the Fatima request for the Consecration of Russia has been accomplished or not. The Ukraine situation is very serious, not least because of polarized views of who is responsible for the conflict.

This video is actually a well detailed account of how it started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VqxOQ6b5gE
#218938
Dear Mamamary
Our Lady's words
Our Lady has spoken at Medjugorje and so what are we to do with this; pretend it does not exist?:
Regarding Russia: "The Russian people will be the people who will glorify God the most. The West has made civilization progress, but without God, as if they were their own creators."
These are not my words they come ftom the Queen of Peace.

http://www.medjugorje.org/msg81.htm

Also AUg 25, 1991. "....Medjugorje is the continuation and fulfillment of Fatima...."
The former Bishop of Fatima defined Fatima as: "The message of Fatima applies to Russia. Fatima and Russia are one."
http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/ ... nilica.htm

It makes all the sense in the world that Medjugorje would have a connection to Russia. Russia connects Fatima to Medjugorje.


also
Regarding Fatima's third secret. "It´s a very bizarre message in that sense because one would have said that salvation was going to come from the West as we always think because we are Westerners, but no, according to the message of Fatima, salvation will come from the East, and particularly, from Ukraine and from the State of Russia itself, which is extraordinary"... Malachi Martin
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