[yerzy]

There is the message of Our Lady that was given to Ivan on August 17th, 2014 in Vincenza, Italy.

(You can listen to recorded description of the apparition – Ivan talked about it in Croatian followed by Italian translation, http://www.medjugorje-info.com/hr/medju ... -2014.html)

According to Ivan, Our Lady said:
"…molite za mojeg ljubljenog, Svetego Oca. Molite za njegov misju, misju mira."
"…pray for my beloved, Holy Father. Pray for his mission, mission of peace.”

Ivan, when he had finished describing the apparition, repeated the call of Our Lady with his own words, making his own little interpretation:
“...nas Gospa poziva … da molimo posebno za svetog Oca i njegove nakane, posebno planove mira”
“...Our Lady calls us... to pray particularly for Holy Father and his intentions, particularly plans of peace”

Sadly, the interpreter said in Italian the word "Francis" ("Francesco"). He had to remember a few sentences at once and then immediately translate them, so probably he made this mistake because of a pressing, it is not easy job to be a translator, I do always appreciate efforts and work of interpreters. But in fact it is not certain who Our Lady refers to, neither Ivan nor Our Lady did use name “Francis”.

There are two people in the world now that can be addressed "Holy Father". Benedict maintains the title “Pope emeritus”. You can say “Holy Father” when referring to him. Maybe it would be even impolite to address him “his eminence, Benedict” as he wanted to be titled "pope emeritus". Anyway, to a former president you can still say “Mr. President”. If anyone of us, and probably also Our Lady, wanted to refer to Him, I mean we for sure can use this manner of address, of referring - “Holy Father”. And even Benedict has his mission of peace – through prayer. As he said he wanted to consecrate his life to prayer. Prayer is the first step to peace and it is really great mission.

Who knows for certain what Our Lady thinks, unless she say it clearly?

Pleas, guys, be accurate and precise when referring to Our Lady words. Such strange situation we have now in our Church. We do not know which "Holy Father" Our Lady refers to. For some it could be obvious, but what is obvious for some, for others can be not obvious and not clear and some could even interpret it otherwise. It is the matter of interpretation. There were some misunderstanding and misinterpretation in the past about some messages of Our Lady and their exact meaning. It wouldn't be proper to say that Our Lady said something if She did not say it. Please, all these are our own interpretation, even if for some it is obvious, and may be cautious not to make mistake, for sometimes it could have tremendous consequences.

Even if Ivan said he thinks Our Lady referred to Francis – wouldn't it be only his fallible statement, unless Our Lady said it clearly Herself.

Pleas, guys, forgive me if my words sound like admonition, but I think we should be accurate in what Our Lady really said and what is our own interpretation or interpretation of Ivan, both still fallible as every interpretation.

We cannot be certain for sure who Our Lady refers to when using this phrase “Holy Father”.

[pablovb]

thanks yerzy for your post pray for our ladys plans especially thiese days thanks

[chere-gospa]

Our Lady was refering to Pope Francis. We can be 100% sure.

The "mission of peace" that Our Lady is talking about is definetly HIS.

[beloved]

Our Lady was refering to Pope Francis. We can be 100% sure.

The "mission of peace" that Our Lady is talking about is definetly HIS.

YES!

The message from Medjugorje Today:

Message of the Virgin Mary given on August 17
during apparition to Medjugorje seer Ivan Dragicevic in Vicenza, Italy:

"Dear children, also today I call you in a particular way: Pray for peace. Open yourselves to the Holy Spirit, dear children. May the Holy Spirit guide you. Especially, dear children, during this time pray for my beloved Holy Father. For his mission, the mission of peace. The Mother prays for all of you and intercedes before her Son for each of you. Thank you, dear children, for also today having responded to my call."

Right after I read this, I turned on the TV and EWTN was broadcasting live from Korea a Mass which Pope Francis was just about to start, A Mass for Peace and Reconciliation. Pope Emeritus Benedict has sworn fidelity to Francis and backs up everything he says, in his life of prayer.

[larc_en_ciel]

Why are you posting these messages all over internet? I saw a couple of italian websites where someone is insisting that Our Lady was not referring to Pope Francis. Of course he's the Holy Father!
Please concentrate on something serious instead of dealing on these things. Pope Francis lost his young nephews today and he's really sad.
Believe it or not he's working somehow for Peace in Iraq

[MedjAdmin]

I agree with larc_en_ciel. Pope Francis is the Holy Father, and he is working tirelessly to bring peace into the world. Our Lady would not try to confuse us. If she had any reason to think we would misunderstand, she probably wouldn't have even mentioned the words.

[yerzy]

@larc_en_ciel
I have written this text especially for this forum and put it also on one more website. I really do not know "a couple of Italian websites", and who is circulating and what.

[yerzy]

Heaven is above, we are here on the earth. Our Lady comes to us form Heaven. Let me insert here one example of Saint John of the Cross, the mystical doctor of the Church - "visions and locutions which come from God are true, we may be deceived about them".

"A soul has great desires to be a martyr. It may happen that God answers him, saying: Thou shalt be a martyr. This will give him inwardly great comfort and confidence that he is to be martyred; yet it may come to pass that he dies not the death of a martyr, and notwithstanding this the promise may be true. Why, then, is it not fulfilled literally? Because it will be fulfilled, and is capable of being fulfilled, according to the most important and essential sense of that saying — namely, in that God will have given that soul the love and the reward which belong essentially to a martyr [after death, in Heaven]" (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/ascent.v.xix.html)

Did God deceive this soul? And yet the prophecy is fulfilled, in the way this souls had never thought of. Would Our Lady deceives or confuse us?

I do not know what is real reference of Our Lady words "Holy Father". Even if 90% of people would say spontaneously with no doubt that Our Lady refers to Francis, other interpretation would also be possible.

It is Our Lady who said in the last message: "I know that you do not understand many things as I also did not understand everything, everything that my Son explained to me while he was growing up alongside me".

Some of the words of Our Lady from Her messages are clear, some to be understand properly probably really need much prayer and meditation.

The most important and essential sense of what Our Lady is saying is her call to pray for the Holy Father. I do pray for the Holy Father, as Our Lady asks us. Prayer is never lost or useless.

[Medjugorje Today]

While completely understanding the point made by yerzy, I fully agree with Chere Gospa, beloved, and Sean: The Holy Father referred to in the message is Francis. Which is why our coverage of the synchronicity to Ivan's August 17 message and Pope Francis' declaring himself willing to go to Iraq (August 18) makes use of Francis' name in the headline, even if he is not being called "Francis" in the message.

With Ivan's message from August 18 in Salvaterra also included, the story is here: http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/10913/mar ... -of-peace/

Of more academic interest and without having history to turn to, given how unusual it is to have two Popes alive at the same time, one could further ask if Pope Benedict has "maintained" the title Holy Father now as Pope Emeritus - or if The Holy Father is always the reigning Pope. The question could be left for forum members more savvy at Vaticanese.

[yerzy]

May we pray for the Holy Father, whoever Our Lady referred to. Only time will tell.

[gtc]

Yerzy,

Can you paint a picture of how Our Lady would be referring to Benedict? I can see a connection with her message and what Pope Francis is trying to accomplish (especially in the timing of her reference). Her messages, if they pertain to something going on in the world, are usually pretty obvious as to what they are referring to. I just don't see how her message could be referring to Benedict. I am not aware in any form that he is spearheading anything to promote peace in the way that Pope Francis is right now.

Also, you pointed out that her message on the 2nd refers to how she did not understand things as Jesus was growing up. She stated that in the context of her trying to help us in the "‘good’ to win, even though this does not seem possible to you now." She is trying to encourage us to persevere because, at least from my perspective, the world is not a really nice place right now, and it is hard to see how this will all turn around (without faith, I really don't know how anyone can have hope). This was not a coded message from her. I am not sure that is a good reference to use in making your point.

[ActionReq]

Yerzy,
I understand what you say, somehow the sayings give you an uncomfortable feeling to relate "pope" with "Francis"
Pray that the Holy Spirit may reveal to you what's up here and stick to that, in the meanwhile you pray for the Holy Father without a name, whoever that may be. And I assume your prayers will be directed by God to the right Holy Father even out-of God's mercy. Maybe everybody should do that.
I think that Mary never says names anyways and Jesus when confronted with names changed them all.
So in the afterlife, we will have anew name I assume. What's in a name? It says nothing about us, it is just a reference to a collection of thoughts and actions behind a face.

[beloved]

Dear Family of Mary!



The live streaming of Marija's August 15, 2014 apparition was a beautiful event. Mary TV began streaming at Marija's house as the pilgrims were gathering. The Rosary was prayed very reverently, in several languages. And a message from Our Lady was read between the decades. It was a beautiful gift to give Our Lady, all that prayer and holy singing.



After the apparition, Marija shared a little about her encounter with Our Lady. Here is what she said;



"At the moment of the apparition Our Lady came and I recommended all of your intentions, and Our Lady prayed over us. I recommended especially those people who had asked our prayer in a special way, all the sick people and the people who are suffering in our prayer. And Our Lady prayed over us and she blessed us. Our Lady came, like always on a feast because today is a big feast, in a golden dress, very rich and very beautiful."



Our Lady always prays for our intentions, according to the visionaries. She is solicitous of all our needs and sufferings. She is a mother!



I also want to share a message that the visionary Ivan received at an evening of prayer at the Church of the Holy Crown in Vicenza, Italy on August 17, 2014, just two days ago:



"Dear children, today in a special way I invite you to pray for peace. Open yourself to the Holy Spirit, dear children, so that the Holy Spirit may guide you. Particularly at this time, dear children, pray for my beloved Holy Father; pray for his mission of peace. I pray with you; interceding with my Son for each of you. Thank you dear children, because even today you have responded to my call."



(Message to Ivan Dragicevic, August 17, 2014 as reported at http://crownofstars.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... ssion.html )



It is said that after Ivan shared this message he said that Our Lady particularly wanted to emphasize the peace mission of Pope Francis.



This message speaks loudly to all of us. The entire world seems to be engulfed in violence and hatred. We all feel quite helpless in the face of it all. But Our Lady does not want us to be helpless. She is showing us the way to help! She says, "Pray for peace." And she goes further. She asks us to open ourselves to the Holy Spirit so that He can guide us. The Holy Spirit knows what we can do. He knows exactly what is possible for each one of us to do in the face of evil. If we pray and open our hearts to His guidance, He will show us exactly what to do in our own sphere of influence. We will not be helpless!!



And so, Our Queen who came in gold, wants to encourage us. She wants us to become her agents of peace, supporting our Holy Father, Pope Francis, in his mission of peace. We each have a role to play. We are not helpless, but helpers for peace! Come Holy Spirit!



In Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

Cathy Nolan

©Mary TV 2014

[yerzy]

Yerzy,
Can you paint a picture of how Our Lady would be referring to Benedict?

Pope emeritus Benedict can work for the peace in the world through his prayers. Isn't it his mission now? Prayer is the first step to peace. Peace in the world can be achieved only when peace will reign in our hearts. And it can be only through sacrifices and prayers. There is no peace without prayer. As saints in Heaven have great mission to accomplish when they intercede for us, in the same way those on earth who dedicated their lives to prayer can help in the peace for the whole world. I would say that prayer is even more important than direct activity and actions.
But what is the most important, I would say: Only time will tell. The situation in the Church now is so strange - since the beginning of the Church we have never had any pope emeritus. So because of that personally I would be very cautious, wary of making any certain, clear statements about what the words of Our Lady really mean.
There are so many signs which show that time now is like a calm before a storm. There is hidden great apostasy in the Church. Gay marriages, attempts to allow Holy Communion to be received by civilly remarried, lack of a respect for the Catholic liturgy, many Catholics are in fact against Catholic morality, so many things to write... There are many wars in the world now and they are increasing rapidly. We really do not know what the future will bring. There are Medjugorje secrets to be revealed. Times in which we are living now are very unusual for the whole world and the whole Church.
Although pope emeritus Benedict wanted to be hidden and absolutely remain silent, I have the impression that his mission is not finished yet - it is not a mission of being reigning pope as he was before - somehow differently. He can still be called Holy Father as a manner of address or referring, even now when he is not the head of the Church now.
Whatever future will bring. Only time will tell. Guys, I do not want to say that Our Lady for sure referred to Benedict, no, I do not know. I just cannot exclude such possibility.

[yerzy]

"Crown of stars" blog
"The seer said afterwards that Our Lady wanted to emphasize the peace mission of Pope Francis"
(http://crownofstars.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... ssion.html)
There is no evidence that the seer said so. It is evident mistake of the interpreter that I pointed in my first post here.

Cathy Nolan newsletter, August 18th, 2014 (MaryTV)
"It is said that after Ivan shared this message he said that Our Lady particularly wanted to emphasize the peace mission of Pope Francis."
Yes, "it is said", because there is no evidence and some people probably spread the mistake of the Italian interpreter.

I asked Steve Shawl about who Our Lady referred to. I think it wouldn't be inappropriate to insert here his answer: "The only way to know for sure would be to ask Ivan himself. That is not possible. The message would indicate Our Lady is speaking about our current Pope. But that is my opinion."

Medjugorje Today
"Mary prays for Francis' mission"
(http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/10913/mar ... -of-peace/)
This is the interpretation of the editor - although for many obvious, common or even almost universal - but in my opinion it is only interpretation.