[Maryh]

You can be afraid for other reasons too, not just because you have no love in your heart towards your neighbour & are empty and hard.
People who have experienced punishments or the failure of love can be afraid & expect more of the same as well.

The cross of Jesus wasn't armed with explosives to blow both himself and Simeon up!

I'm not trying to make excuses or justify not wanting to help; of course I want to help!
Nor do I want to point fingers at all Muslim people, I'm disappointed that that's the conclusion your coming to after reading my post. All my points were dismissed as evidence of fear & a lack of love? I was looking for solutions.

How is it going to work if both are not co-operating and one is trying to dominate another? On a long term basis? That's why marriages don't work out. You can love all you want but be taken for a ride & used.
I'm not reassured this is possible. I do hope for the best but I'm pessimistic & overwhelmed by it.

I actually thought of this poem of Mother Teresa too just as I was writing. Co-incidence
Probably shouldn't verbalise any of these issues to anyone & just give them to God. If you ain't got nothing positive to say and all of that.

[bluecross]

/

[stunnedbyit]

Is letting many ideologically dangerous people into our neighbourhoods the equivalent of Jesus choosing not to run away when he could have? Would we be running away from our moral duties if we shut all these people out? Is that what Hungary has done?
Jesus expressed mercy for the very people who nailed him to the cross. To imitate Jesus, are we to show mercy to those who loathe us?
I think we know what God expects of us but only a Saint can show love towards people with radically violent views.
Do we believe that we can engage with these people and help them change? And how do we even begin the process of achieving that?
It is easy to say "let them come", but how many of us will offer the hand of friendship and tell them the truth about Sharia?
I know that some will say "take the plank out of your eye first" but my own sins don't include being in favour of stonings and beheadings.
Does mercy not incorporate truth? I.e. I love you brother but your violent views are sinful.
There is no mercy without truth and correction. In my eyes, it is immoral to give them a warm welcome then cower away from the more awkward issues. I wish we could hear Pope Benedict speak on this topic.
Ps: I know that some of the Muslims coming over will be good people - I am referring to those who support violent Jihad and Sharia law.

[bluecross]

/

[Maryh]

https://www.ammado.com/community/158951/fundraising

They need food, water, first aid and psychosocial support.
Protect humanity!

What is psychosocial support?
Think we should all start to learn Arabic to communicate with them & pray to God for
both heroic virtues & for the multiplication of loaves & fishes.
It will have to be taken one day at a time because its completely overwhelming.

[Maryh]

Mother Teresa's poem came up in my newsfeed just now without me even looking for it.
3rd co-incidence this evening. Didn't think browser cookies were that good.
That and a few more inspiring words so I thought I better share them after all the doom and gloom.

[mamamary]

i dont know who they are, what they believe or what they could possibly do, but they will know WE are christian by our LOVE!

[stunnedbyit]

So pointing out people's shortcomings is the opposite of mercy?
We are mean and unforgiving if we engage with Muslims and express the view that violence is a sin?
I am sure you don't believe that BC.
Perhaps what you are really trying to tell me is that it is self defeating to give this topic so much time and thought - I can't argue with that if that is the case.

[bluecross]

/

[stunnedbyit]

I can now see that in the 9 years of posting here, I have been guilty of creating threads to help me through my own demons and issues.
I have not done this through malice, but I apologise for contributing towards something which this forum is not meant to be for.
In reality, these threads have not brought me any further forward and have perhaps negatively impacted others.
Again, I apologise for my misuse of this forum and promise never to do so again.
I will continue to visit this forum but will cease posting until I am in a better and less confused place spiritually.
Bluecross, your words weigh heavy on my heart (i was raised with no father figure so find it tough to be "told off" and have my arguments dismantled) but I needed them. Thank you - you have done me a favour.

[bluecross]

/

[ministryvalues]

For those who worry about borders, law breakers and the Islamification of Europe please remember why these refugees are on the move.

I read yesterday that 90% of the refugees are coming from Syria, Iraq, Libya, and Yemen..

The USA has invaded Iraq (which got the whole ball rolling), forced regime change in Libya, conducts war in Yemen, and has for years sought the destruction of the ruling party in Syria. USA has set the Middle East on fire.

It is amazing to me that some folks are unhappy that "muslim" refugees are pouring into Europe. This historical event may be to greatest example of blaming the victim in the history of the world.

[Maryh]

Well I wish the US had been successful in destroying the ruling party in Syria & it absolutely baffles me
why Assad has not been brought before the international court of human rights for crimes against humanity by now.
He rules by torturing his own people, he used chemical weapons & barrel bombs on them. I wish the US had ousted him.
Russia is colludering with him.
Not tackling the question of how we'd deal with the islamification of Europe into the bargain is like ignoring an elephant in the room.
We're all in different places in our journey to faith.

Asking ourselves the hard questions about what we'd do in the face of Muslim refugee influx does not necessarily mean we are
planning not to love these people, that we want to run away in fear or that we are not happy to have them live amongst us.
It is a hideous conclusion to make and quite insulting also, to have it rammed down our throats that we are being unchristian for even
having these concerns in the first place. Its reality.

Fear is also not totally from the devil; would I be wrong to fear walking off with a strange man after a nightclub encase of the consequence like what happened to that poor Irish student in Glasgow. She was too trusting, too loving; always seeing the best in people.

I for one feel totally judged for airing any issues or problems I may come up against IN THE PROCESS of knowing how to love these people. I'm furious.
All these people so cock sure they will be able to love thousands upon thousands of needy people, I would like to ask the question
How exactly do you plan on doing this? By smiling at them & wishing them well? We can't even speak the same language.
Its precisely that I take the task of loving as a serious responsibility that I want to know what is this great love going to look like?

Are you going to give your money? Well start giving and giving A LOT. I left a link in my last post.
Its like that statement in the bible where people wish for the person to eat well, and take care to not be out in the cold but
don't left a finger to alleviate any of their needs.
Not everybody may feel up to this task.
Some people like to think we live in the land of milk and honey here, having more than we could ever want and need but I say speak for yourself. I struggle to pay bills, have been trying to pay off student loans for years. I cannot even afford a hair cut or new trainers.
How am I supposed to help them?
Our country treats the poor it already has appallingly. I wouldn't wish our country on them.
I want to know HOW are you planning on loving them?

SBI- if your reading you often ask questions I have thought myself, & I think they are important ones too. How exactly are we to love our enemies & the people who loathe us? We're all in different places on our journey of faith.
I too grew up without my Dad & its HARD. I have no doubt at all that your heart was in the right place when you posted what you did.

[mamamary]

i am sorry you have the feelings of 'being judged' mary, or feel you are not able to help someone in need, be it an immigrant, or a poor person on the street. we can only do what we can do, until God calls us to do more.

we never know what lengths we are capable of loving, until we are choosing to do so. fear is never an answer in the face of need.

i do not know how our country will address the need of the refugees, nor how other nations will respond. my hope it is in unison and in a way which the refugees will know that we are not fearful, but it is my hopes that they see christ in us.

there are ways anyone can help the poor, the lonely, the elderly in their communities and churches. most don't even require money. there always seem to be donations of food for the needy, but the challenge comes by feeding what is truly hungry in the needy--their spirit. for me, one of the most challenging actions was not finding the food to bring, or preparing it, or serving it. what was challenging was when the priest asked that the volunteers sit with the people, eat with them and talk to them. just as christ did.

when i look at the situation with the refugees, i am thankful for the actions of the holy father. his was not to merely say 'feed the refugees' but he asked every parish to host a family. true to his words, a refugee family now resides in the vatican. christ's love is very radical and fearless, just as our holy father shows us.

never fear those in need, because christ comes as a begger. doing so gives power to those who preach fear and division. this is not christ's love. it is very ironic we spend time wondering how the world's nations will pay to feed and clothe the refugees. however, have we ever ONCE asked ourselves how we will pay for bombs, or guns or war? the price we have paid to wage war far exceeds the price we pay to wage PEACE. it is sad, because the benefits of the latter are immense.

[Maryh]

Thanks Mammamary.
Its not that I don't feel like I can help a person in need. I do help & want to help but the scale of this is absolutely enormous. Epic, and we don't speak the same language or hold the same views. It is HUGE. Muslim views are a challenge to say the least.
I do choose to love but everyone is making it sound so easy. Its not a matter of fear but of not being able to cope with the scale of it.
You cannot give what you do not have.

There was a bizarre guilt tripping current going on in the thread. All this look into your own hard, cold, empty, fear- driven heart
and look at the man in the mirror & see the evil within first & the cog in your own eye & putting blame on people and countries unfairly.
Self and other flagellation. I don't like it or agree with it.


No, there will be serious problems that will arise whilst you go about trying to love your neighbour and understand him.

I see huge problems that need to be addressed in order to love & help. Nobody wants to talk about these.
I'm glad the holy father can accommodate the families. Good for him, hope he dishes out a lot more advice on how to live
side by side too on a long term basis.
if we can't see where our neighbour is coming from and we speak the same language what hope is there?


I actually think this is a way God is punishing us to be honest. God gave people their own lands & boundaries so
people can live in peace. Now there will be none of these boundaries. There needs to be healthy boundaries and laws that everyone will obey or expect complete chaos.
Some can't be a law unto themselves or segregate into their own ideas of law.
We will be amongst people who we will not understand & this is because our countries have not been obeying God or looking to him for wisdom.
That's why God made people speak different languages in the first place because of sin. Each went off and formed their own culture.
Our countries have become like cities of babel with a tower as high as the sky.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

It is easy for someone to say no refugees should be allowed in just as it can be easy for someone else to say let them all in. But in reality, neither option is easy. Every situation has its own challenges. Here in the US, we have regular attacks from people with varying ethnic backgrounds. Let's just say we have become cautious and sometimes for good reason.

Regardless, as Catholic Christians, we are called to compassion. But we also need to balance this with prudence and common sense. I have no problem with strict background checks before letting refugees in and if a small minority breaks the law while here, I would have no problem sending them back. I also realize conducting background checks may be nearly impossible due to the troubled societies they have been forced to leave. I also realize that we need to do everything possible to safely help these poor citizens who have suffered more than some of us can imagine.

We live in a dangerous world and just tonight, a few minutes before writing this, I received the terrible news that a family I highly respect for their passion in writing and directing faith based films just lost two of their family members to kidnappers in Mexico. This is heartbreaking news and my prayers and condolences go out to their family and know they would appreciate your prayers as well . I/we have lot to pray for.

[bluecross]

/

[ministryvalues]

From Maryh

He (assad) rules by torturing his own people, he used chemical weapons & barrel bombs on them

I hear this all the time but I dont understand this.

Assad is fighting ISIS. He his killing the people who behead and crucify Christians. Assad is an Cambridge educated Ophthalmologist. He is a medical doctor. He may be a awful dictator but be has kept relative peace for generation. When will we stop thinking we can liberate counties - it leads to nothing but the death of innocent people.

And just what is a barrel bomb? And why is it that USA's lethal weapons, drones, bombs, etc are some how more acceptable then "barrel bomb's". How many women and children died in Iraq, Libya, and Syria because of our wish for regime change.?

[kim52]

Healthy boundaries are correct! It's interesting the immigrants wanted out of Turkey for a better life also. My kids were affected as they saw a 5th grader engaged to a 54 yr old man and the school called child protection. In high school a muslim girl of 17 was run down by her father for dating a local boy, she lived but had to hide. I believe they should be accepting our laws and not Sharia. Then we are in a situation where we can help!

[mamamary]

The Grosse Ile disaster – a connection with the current migrant and refugee crisis – and SYRIA

Grosse Ile is a place of buried hopes for those emigrants attempting to escape the Irish Famine who travelled to Canada on 'coffin ships'.

The SYRIA was the first ship of the emigrant sailing season to arrive at Grosse Ile, the quarantine station for the port of Quebec.

Out of a total of 241 Irish emigrants on the SYRIA, 84 had typhus fever. Nine people had already died. Panic-stricken flight from Ireland soon brought dozens more ‘coffin ships’ to the Canadian port and its facilities were overwhelmed. By the time the Grosse Ile station was closed at the end of the 1847 sailing season, over 5,300 had died there. At least another 15,000 perished soon after landing in British North America. How many died on the voyage and were buried at sea is not recorded.

More at http://www.bbc.co.uk/timelines/zpmhycw

the irish were a hated people, murdered by the millions and when they immigrated to these shores, they were just as reviled. they were thought to be a 'lesser' people, viewed as less human than anglo saxons. where does fear lead us?

we can't be afraid of the logistics of being charitable, there is the time, the money and the space in this big world for everyone. simply look at the EXPENSE of war, of paranoia it has cost americans alone tens of billions of dollars. could the cost of LOVE, of healing be more?

today, i learned that the US has 45 military bases just in the countries which border iran. 45 military bases. FORTY FIVE. just to keep an eye on iran. does anyone ever wonder how much ONE military base overseas costs the average taxpayer? does anyone fret or fear what this burden means to us? yet the thought of feeding, helping or housing refugees seems so daunting to us. for a mere $245 billion dollars each year, we run military bases in an area of the world which we ripped apart with war. when will anyone ever say that this is too much to spend, that this cost has been far too high?

[ministryvalues]

Russia opens huge new mosque ahead of Eid holiday
Moscow's new main mosque opens doors after 10 years of construction work, offering prayer space to 10,000 Muslims.

"This mosque will become an extremely important spiritual centre for Muslims in Moscow and the whole Russia," Putin said in a televised speech.

"It will be a source for education, spreading humanist ideas and the true values of Islam."

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-opens-huge- ... 59562.html

Peace, peace and only peace.

[Maryh]

Hi Stephen,
Putin built the mosques probably to please Assad as they are like two peas in a pod.
Assad is fighting more than ISIS, he's also fighting rebels, & anti-government opposition forces that want change to his regime.
Syria is broken up between a lot of rival factions now. It all started with peaceful anti-government demonstrations & then Assad got heavy handed against them which inflamed it all even more.
Most of all, he's fighting for himself to stay in power.
I happen to know more or less from the horses mouth, that he is manipulating the situation so much just so he can stay in power.
When the opposition takes control of a key region, he lets ISIS gain more ground. He lets them fight it out.
An awful lot of the young men have defected from the government army because he wore them down.
He kept peace because he tortured, if anyone disagreed with him there were kept in underground dungeons' without seeing the light of day for years.
I think barrel bombs along with chemical weapon attacks are particularly cruel. The fact that he's an eye doctor doesn't give him any ounce of credibility.
The international community do not think it will help for Russia to side with Syrian government in this fight against ISIS.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/this-is-w ... ?r=US&IR=T


Mammamary; Your right the Irish were treated as a 'lesser' people. Both my parents worked in England also & they weren't treated very nicely either. They were treated with derision alright. In years gone by there were signs on doors saying 'NO Blacks, no dogs, no Irish'.

we can't be afraid of the logistics of being charitable, there is the time, the money and the space in this big world for everyone

You are so right. I forgot that God provides for us all.

Kim: I really can't blame the immigrants for wanting out of Turkey. Its a really poor country that is over-burdened with refugees now.
They also can't speak the language there & there wouldn't be even classes provided to teach them this.
There would be no hope for a future there.
Really hope there isn't too many Muslim men out there who think its acceptable to marry a 5th grader.
Seriously I couldn't help but be totally repulsed by this kind of situation. It would be child abuse by our laws.
I suppose it is fear of this kind of attitude coming along in the bargain, Treating women and girls as second class citizens &
their inferiors. I don't feel comfortable around people with this attitude.

I think reading the papers and seeing video's of rowdy immigrants fighting & throwing stones & refusing water
& being demanding doesn't help me to cultivate a compassionate Christian attitude. Also today read about bad things happening to the women in refugee camps.

I need to get stronger faith in God. Just like what Our Lady said in her message today or else I won't be able to serve my neighbour in need.

[Gael]

Thanks Mammamary.
Its not that I don't feel like I can help a person in need. I do help & want to help but the scale of this is absolutely enormous. Epic, and we don't speak the same language or hold the same views. It is HUGE. Muslim views are a challenge to say the least.
I do choose to love but everyone is making it sound so easy. Its not a matter of fear but of not being able to cope with the scale of it.
You cannot give what you do not have.

There was a bizarre guilt tripping current going on in the thread. All this look into your own hard, cold, empty, fear- driven heart
and look at the man in the mirror & see the evil within first & the cog in your own eye & putting blame on people and countries unfairly.
Self and other flagellation. I don't like it or agree with it.


No, there will be serious problems that will arise whilst you go about trying to love your neighbour and understand him.

I see huge problems that need to be addressed in order to love & help. Nobody wants to talk about these.
I'm glad the holy father can accommodate the families. Good for him, hope he dishes out a lot more advice on how to live
side by side too on a long term basis.
if we can't see where our neighbour is coming from and we speak the same language what hope is there?


I actually think this is a way God is punishing us to be honest. God gave people their own lands & boundaries so
people can live in peace. Now there will be none of these boundaries. There needs to be healthy boundaries and laws that everyone will obey or expect complete chaos.
Some can't be a law unto themselves or segregate into their own ideas of law.
We will be amongst people who we will not understand & this is because our countries have not been obeying God or looking to him for wisdom.
That's why God made people speak different languages in the first place because of sin. Each went off and formed their own culture.
Our countries have become like cities of babel with a tower as high as the sky.

Mary I wonder will there be boundaries in heaven? Will we all be kept seperate or will we worship God together? I was recently in Lourdes and im sure Medjugorje is the same, people came together in their thousands to pray. Each in their own language, each in their own dress...it made it more special not less so. You seem very concerned about how to communicate with strangers but I managed to have conversations and fun chatting to people from Italy, France, Japan, the Netherlands...and I could not speak a word of their tongue nor they of mine. But we understood each other, the gestures, the smiles, the bows of thanks. Of course an immigrant must live by the law of whatever country they live in but I imagine the vast majority of them will do so as much as any other person. Coming from Northern Ireland I had to travel to live and work in London when I was younger...at the time there was a bombing campaign in London by the IRA, so when people in London heard my accent they would occassionally look at me with great distaste. Bus drivers would throw my change on the floor instead of giving it to me, and check under my seat when I got up to make sure I hadnt forgotten any "bags". People acted like this through fear. I was afraid myself...coming from a small irish village I had never been to a big city like London before, I thought everyone I met was going to rob or attack me...so I was afraid of them and they were afraid of me...how ridiculous!! Give people a chance, many of them too are trying to escape the fanatical Muslim elements and they more than anyone want to live in peace. If they wanted to live like fanatics they would have stayed where they were.

[Maryh]

Hi Gael,

I think there will be boundaries in heaven, Pearly gates for a start. A place for the choirs of angels & a big wide gulf separating us from the lake of fire & the endless abyss. There will be no entry point where badness can enter.
I hope there are separate areas in heaven. A place for everyone, otherwise it would be suffocating.
I don't know what heaven will be like but I do believe there will be total & complete freedom there for everyone & no threats or risk of harm happening to anyone.
Why do you ask?

That is very nice to hear you can communicate well with people from different countries on pilgrimage. They sounded like a friendly & co-operative bunch also. You were all in one accord of the same faith. Nice you could all come together & worship God even though you spoke different languages.


Heard an encouraging statement recently;
'Kindness is the language
that the deaf can hear & the blind can see'.

[ministryvalues]

Putin on the Refugee Crisis and the turmoil in the Middle East "Do you realize what you have done?"
Is Mr. Putin wrong?

Russian President Vladimir Putin told the U.N. on Monday that those who supported democratic revolutions in the Middle East are to blame for the rise of a globally ambitious Islamic State.

"Instead of the triumph of democracy and progress, we got violence, poverty and social disaster — and nobody cares a bit about human rights, including the right to life," Putin said through a translator. "I cannot help asking those who have forced that situation: Do you realize what you have done?"

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/28/putin-do ... -done.html