[bluecross]

http://www.themedjugorjewitness.org

[maryannlucy]

you can spin it as you like, but what is even more disconcerting is his apparent lament of religious vocations

[bluecross]

Could also lament the fall in numbers attending Mass on Sunday.

But we can hope. Many a vocation came through the grace of God at Medjugorje.

Also, a lot more men becoming deacons.

[Prodigals]

Read it as many times as you like. But its still hard to build a case to defend Pope Francis words.

He's charging Our Lady as one who "seeks the limelight", and defines such a person as not the real Madonna.

He teaches us that the real Madonna can be identified as one who "generates Jesus in our hearts", not as one who communicates with Her "children" every day.

What he is not able to understand is that Our Lady of Medjugurje is doing both.

[bluecross]

I’ve thought about this for a while now, and I just can’t imagine that Pope Francis would be pointing the finger at the Medjugorje phenomenon. He’s made the reference to postmaster two or three times now, and yet, as you say, Prodigals:

He teaches us that the real Madonna can be identified as one who "generates Jesus in our hearts", not as one who communicates with Her "children" every day.

My take on this is that the Pope is referring to a section of the faithful who chase apparitions and visionaries; that’s what attracts them to places like Medjugorje and other apparitions sites around the world.

Many Italians demonstrate this. They visit Medjugorje for three days just to attend the apparition to Mirjana and then return home again. The draw is the apparition and the visionary – not Jesus. If it was Jesus, then they would be at Mass every day!

There’s another section of the faithful who behave in a similar way, those who chase after and follow self-proclaimed prophets – always looking for “novelties” and news of what is to come. That’s been part of the problem with Medjugorje and the strong interest in the ‘secrets’. Check the numbers who have looked at the post I made a couple of days ago about Our Lady’s triumph. We are a curious people and because of that we can end up chasing after shadows, false prophets, false visionaries, and so false messages.

This is what I feel Pope Francis is pointing out. We have everything we need already in Jesus. That’s why Our Lady points to him and wants us to turn back to him. But the danger is that some don’t do that. Instead they set their hearts on turning the Madonna into a pop idol, and wanting to attend every show she is booked for. That’s probably the reason the Vatican clamped down on the public appearances of the visionaries and set times in churches and other venues for Our Lady’s apparitions. It all starts to become somewhat showy and predictable. Mary becomes the star and Jesus the support act.

It’s one of the reasons I switched off from promoting the messages to Mirjana. The visionary was starting to become the ‘star’ of the show (no intention on her part). Hours of video coverage on YouTube and constant closeups of Mirjana... People posting about screaming pilgrims, Mirjana’s emotional state, but very little mention of the messages. It took five days after the last apparition before someone decided to post the latest message given to Mirjana on the forum.

Pope Francis has been very careful not to make mention of Medjugorje. I feel this is probably because there are still some changes the Vatican wants to introduce at Medjugorje before any official announcement is made by the Pope. And some of the changes could be related to when the local bishop retires from office. But that is only my opinion and I don’t have any facts to back it up.

[Prodigals]

My take on this is that the Pope is referring to a section of the faithful who chase apparitions and visionaries

You may be right in that is what his intention is. If that is what he is trying to say, then I must say that he expresses his point badly. Not only does he not clearly make the point he is trying to make, but his words actually convey an opposite meaning. For a guy who in his early life ran tests in a chemical laboratory, you would think precision would be a strong asset of his makeup.

In his criticisms - legitimate though they may be - Francis has to learn not to throw the baby out with the bath water. He has to see that even those who chase apparitions, secrets, and the latest messages are at least attentive to the Madonna. If their level of spiritual sophistication is not as advanced as the pope would like it, would he like it better if they in their simplicity were fixated instead on the hollow gurglings of the other Madonna, the "material girl"?

These people the pope chides are at least in the audience of Our Lady where She will guide them in Her own way toward Her Son to the limit of their intellectual and emotional abilities . I for one trust that the Virgin Mary - in her own time - will generate Jesus in their hearts.

And isn't this exactly what the Holy Father wants? There can be many diverse roads all leading to the same place.

[bluecross]

Personally, I don’t have a problem with Pope Francis as it appears some do, judging by the amount of criticism I’ve read on the internet.

But then I also read a lot of criticism of Our Lady’s messages and about the Medjugorje phenomenon, but I console myself by the fact that most of the critics are on the outside looking in and have never experienced the graces that stem from Medjugorje.

Likewise with the Pope. His message is no different from Our Lady’s message. Both proclaim the word of God.

I suppose it can be compared to the two visionaries Marija and Mirjana. The tone of the messages presented by each visionary is different, but the messages come from the same source.

One of the difficulties the Pope has to face is the sniping from within the church, usually carried out from a distance, especially via the media. There isn’t a one-on-one conversation. However, the recent remark Pope Francis made about the ‘superstar Madonna’ was made before a group of priests. He was addressing the priests at the convention. But now some of the text has been published, the critics of Pope Francis scan the document to see if there is any ammunition they can use against him. The Pharisees did this all the time with Jesus trying to trap him and use his own words against him.

Pope Francis recently spoke about this tactic during one of his homilies (it may even have been this morning). And that’s why in his wisdom he probably chooses not to engage or get caught up in providing answers for everyone that questions him. Whatever answer he gives, someone will try to use it against him. No, better that we listen to him as we listen to Our Lady’s messages, otherwise we will end up like some at Medjugorje who ask the visionaries: What does Our Lady say about Ireland, the U.S. abortion, Trump, what time is the next apparition and location...? And if Our Lady was to provide the answers what would these people do? Probably use Our Lady’s words to beat others with or, if they are opponents say, Our Lady would never say that!

Her priority is for people to reconcile with Jesus (and each other). And isn’t the Pope doing the same, urging the people to reconcile with God and each other? We should ask ourselves why so much anger and animosity is directed at the Pope when he does this, and who is the force behind these kinds of attack?

The Pope always tries to point and lead the people towards Scripture, that’s his strength and ours. The Gospel message.

[thebpman]

I don't see that as the Pope taking a swipe at Our Lady at Medjugorje. There are plenty of other "apparitions " around the world where daily messages are given that don't seem to grab me like the monthly messages from Medjugorje.
Our Lady's messages are usually the same thing repeated over and over. If you've had kids you would know that things do have to be repeated over and over for them to sink in.
Our Lady at Medjugorje always brings us back to the gospel and Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit are always what every message is about.
My personal experience at Medjugorje was not like the hollow hype of a rock star. I was truly in awe. God exists and the this village was full of people celebrating that reality. It was like I was seeing reality for the first time and that this little village was the only sane place in the world. It really is crazy out here when the presence of God gets muffled by the world.
Anyway I really don't think that what the Pope is reported to have said has anything to do with Medjugorje because it's just not what Medjugorje is. He must be referring to something else.

[ActionReq]

Medjugorje is beautiful.
It is the cause of many vocations.
However it is not going to change the
world without some divine intervention.

Secrets coming true.
Shocking miracles abound.

My children's social teacher says this:

Religion is too beautiful to be true.
Sociology is too true to be beautiful.

However
Click on world, and see it is improving.
http://cara.georgetown.edu/frequently-r ... tatistics/
Europe, Australia and USA, we just become missionary area.
Catholic focus just goes to Africa and Asia, South America.