[kim52]

The Pope has spoken. I get what he is saying, but disagree. That is okay I hope.

[thebpman]

I hope so. We're in the same boat kim52.

[sprout]

if you forget the visionaries just for a minute, what about some of the other strange happenings that people have said they have experienced there, surely they can't just be ignored. So far as I can see something out of the ordinary is happening there.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Kim2,

Holy Scripture provides us with a litmus test to help us determine the truth. The following are two well known Scriptures but are necessary for us to study frequently
especially now with all the confusion in the air. I think we can expect more surprises to come. This recent surprise from our Pope came to me like a strong gust of wind
that nearly knocked me to the ground. I think it is becoming more clear, the urgency for us to follow Our Lady's messages so I(we) don't get swept away from the coming storm.

Testing the Spirits.* (1John 4: 1-11 NAB)
1
Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2
This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God,
3
and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus* does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4
You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5
They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.
6
We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.

God’s Love and Christian Life.
7
* Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.
8
Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love.
9
In this way the love of God was revealed to us: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might have life through him.
10
In this is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as expiation for our sins.
11
Beloved, if God so loved us, we also must love one another.

False Prophets.* (Matthew 7:15-20 NAB)
15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.k
16
l By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20
So by their fruits you will know them.

When I study the above Scriptures, Medjugorje passes the test, especially now since we have over 30 years to go on

Even the Pope with his doubts fully embraces the fruits of Medjugorje.

If I have missed something here I would appreciate it if someone could enlighten me with the truth...

[Angelica]

Is the Pope a Jesuit?

[bluecross]

Even the Pope with his doubts fully embraces the fruits of Medjugorje.

Yes, there are some very special graces at Medjugorje.

But fruits are not exclusive to Medjugorje or conditional on apparitions.

Personally, I think Pope Francis is attempting to re-align our focus, less on Mary and her messages, more on Jesus and the Word. Even hearts can be visually impaired!

Mary would also want the focus to be on Jesus.

I’m always amazed at the crowds that gather early on Apparition Hill and travel great distances, even from other countries, for the apparition to Mirjana on the 2nd of every month. Does the same happen for Mass?

I know Italian pilgrims like to arrive early to ensure they get a seat!

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Of that we can be certain. Absolutely!

Marian apparitions and messages? The Church leaves room for uncertainty and non-belief –– even for a pope.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

But BC, wouldn't you agree that following the messages will lead us to Mary's Son?

And wouldn't you also agree that even if the apparitions were a fraud, the pilgrims, priests, and all the other faithful coming together in Medjugorje have made this a holy place of prayer in honor of Jesus?

[bluecross]

But BC, wouldn't you agree that following the messages will lead us to Mary's Son?

Are you saying that you don’t recognise the voice of the Good Shepherd but only the voice of his mother? The mother of Jesus said to the servants: “Do whatever he tells you.” In this scenario, we are invited to heed the words of Mary and act upon the words of Jesus.

And wouldn't you also agree that even if the apparitions were a fraud, the pilgrims, priests, and all the other faithful coming together in Medjugorje have made this a holy place of prayer in honor of Jesus?

Better the heart be a holy place of prayer in honour of Jesus.

As for fraud, I’m more than capable of deceiving myself on occasions, often not knowingly.

I really don’t know why the Pope chooses to doubt the current apparitions, and therefore the messages. He must have his reasons. I feel his personal expression about the apparitions is a definitive moment in the history of the Medjugorje phenomenon.

Yes, it has come as a shock to many who follow Medjugorje, including myself. But I also see it as an opportunity to re-consider my own direction in life. It is so very easy to coast and be comfortable and want to avoid the difficult questions in life. Pope Francis is very good at making all of us look in the mirror from time to time. Jesus took that approach as well, even to the point where some of his followers decided to leave him. It can hurt when expectations are dashed. However, when Jesus makes himself known, hearts can burn again. (Luke 24 : 13-35)

Medjugorje, if anything, is a place of resurrection, and I believe will continue to be so, with or without the apparitions and visionaries.

And I have to keep reminding myself it is the Holy Spirit who renews the face of the earth, the same Spirit who prompts our soul to repent and confess our sins.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Are you saying that you don’t recognise the voice of the Good Shepherd but only the voice of his mother?

You already answered my thoughts beautifully so I'll just requote your response:

The mother of Jesus said to the servants: “Do whatever he tells you.” In this scenario, we are invited to heed the words of Mary and act upon the words of Jesus.

Better the heart be a holy place of prayer in honour of Jesus.

Another good response but I would include the Church, our prayer closet, Medjugorje, a mountain top, or any other place of prayer that aids us to honor Jesus in our hearts...

[Maryh]

Worse case scenario- these apparitions are a hoax and being used as a means of deception and control- the hallmarks of a cult,
There will be harmful consequences of this too because its warping the truth. Bad fruits will be there as a result of this
misrepresentation.

I hope all fruits are being analysed and will become available in an easily understood format as a result of this
drawn out investigation. Why the local bishops object...all of it.
Already; people are hurt and upset that Pope Francis has dismissed their deeply held beliefs in relation to this.

It also wouldn't be the first time Jesus was used in order for others to get rich!!!

Those few words in conclusion of the commission can't come soon enough as far as i'm concerned.

Thanks Medjugorjeprayers for those passages about discernment.
I can see now why so much sheep and shepherd imagery is used in the bible; i feel like a sheep today!

[bluecross]

I hope all fruits are being analysed and will become available in an easily understood format as a result of this drawn out investigation.

Not even God can do this. Simple reason. He forgets all the sins we have confessed.

Every confession, every reconciliation, every soul healed, every moment of joy, of peace, experienced through Medjugorje is a ‘fruit’. Every conversion, every vocation, every promise, every spirit-inspired initiative, every prayer said, every hymn sung, every step up and down the hills, every physical healing, every gratitude, every heart that is opened. All are fruits experienced Medjugorje.

Go there!

[Prodigals]

Personally, I think Pope Francis is attempting to re-align our focus, less on Mary and her messages, more on Jesus and the Word.

Re-align our focus?

Let me get this straight. Christ Our Lord sends His most Holy Mother, the Queen of Heaven, and permits Her for thirty odd years to speak directly to us in an attempt to 're-align' mankind's focus by saying in essence "Dear Children. You've wandered away from God too far. Return to My Son who is your savior. Do whatever He tells you."

And to make sure that our focus is on Her Son and not on Her, she has even instructed us that if we have a choice to either attend one of Her apparitions, or attend a Mass, that we should always choose the Mass where Her Son is.

Here comes Francis, the former Buenos Aires bar bouncer. He tells us in effect "I know better, so I'll be the one to re-align your focus. Pay no attention to that messenger woman, that boss of telegraphic office, who sends a message every day - who may not even really be there. Even if she is really appearing - and I doubt it - these apparitions do not have much value."

The absolute hubris of the man to put himself above the Mother of God and denigrate The Queen of Heaven by suggesting that he is a better spiritual guide for us than She.

As aoise said earlier "no one has the authority to command the Mother of God to cease coming to her children." Apparently, Francis never got the memo. Let us not forget that shortly before his election, pre-Francis Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio forbade Ivan from having a public apparition in a church in Buenos Aires.

It is clear that those who always refer to this pope as a man of great humility are easily duped.

maryannlucy is precise in her analysis that Francis is deliberately squelching a good report from being disseminated to the CDF. She also makes us remember that Mary's coming at Medjugorje was prophesied before it happened by Hasan Shushud. One of the things he foretold was “You will see that Mary will suffer, wait, hope and continue to call for a long time . . ."

Pope Francis has made it his mission to make this come true. And so, Mary will continue to suffer.

[bluecross]

Here comes Francis, the former Buenos Aires bar bouncer

Which message did that come from?

[Prodigals]

My message.

[Maryh]

All the more power to him. Thug life!

[irish m]

well said Prodigals I will second that every word you said is right
God Bless All
Love Irish M
Ps The Blessed Mother is there in Medjugorje for when she got me to go to it and I haven't stopped going it's 5 year's in a row now

[Prodigals]

it's 5 year's in a row now

God Bless irish! Keep up the good work!

[Biggles]

I rarely post here, but feel the need to contribute to this discussion. All you fifty-somethings out there, cast your minds back to when you were teenagers - around the same age as the visionaries when Our Lady started appearing in Medjugorje. Typical teenagers would exaggerate and sensationalise their accounts of any unusual events over a period of time, wouldn't they? The visionaries have remained steadfast in their accounts and have not done so. Neither did they buckle under the pressure of the communist authorities when forced to undergo interrogation. If (as many people seem to think) we are on the brink of the "end times", then it makes absolute sense that Our Lady has been appearing so regularly in Medjugorje. The visionaries haven't behaved with delusions of super stardom. Quite the opposite, they are humble and far from attention seeking. They have led good and honest lives and are an example to us all. If Pope Francis were to travel to Medjugorje, disguised and incognito, and stay there for a week, I am certain he would think differently.

[ministryvalues]

Jesus vs Mary..

My opinion only

Our Lady of Fatima said "In the end my heart will triumph" I have always felt this means the faithful must understand Our Lady's heart to properly find there way to jesus.
Here in America "Jesus" has been crucified again by secular media and quite frankly many "Christians" who put politics in the first place. We need Our Lady to show us the way back to her Son.



Here are some interesting message from a recently approved Catholic apparition in Argentina.. Our Lady of the Rosary..

From the words of jesus to visionary

1.It is my Mother the one that will prevent them from drifting aimlessly, my mother is the one that will cause them to come directly to Me. My Mother must be received;


2. Today the world is confused, very confused. Evil appears to be the only solution. Mankind is being lead by Satan to the deepest of the abysses, to the total condemnation of the soul. Fortunate those that want to see clear in their hearts. Fortunate those that stop to meditate. Fortunate those that are lead by the Mother. Glory be to the Eternal one.



3. My Mother must be listened to in the totality of her messages. Man must discover the wealth that She brings the Christians. The children of the sin will grow in it, if their incredulity increases.



4. Previously the world was saved with Noah’s Ark. Today the Ark is My Mother. By means of Her the souls will be saved because It will bring them towards Me.



5. Whoever rejects My Mother, rejects Me.



During the period of apparitions in Argentina, the Blessed Mother also said:

Who ever wants to follow the Lord, must follow me.

The one that despises me despises Christ and is hurting himself. The one that loves Christ also loves His Mother. Praised be the Lord. That all ma

[Angelica]

I can't even believe we are having this discussion re:Pope. Here in Medjugorje, Our Lord sends the Blessed Mother to a world drowning in sin and all the doubting Thomas's are coming out of the closet. Frankly, I can smell liberation theology a mile away & it is very prevelant in South America. I am in the process of writing simple dissertations on several topics and frankly, these are all the things we Catholics have not been fed. Our priests are purposely being misinformed right from their formation, in the seminary. Not sure who is in charge of that one. And the heresy of modernism to include no such thing as miracles is very evident in the priests. We were warned of this at Garabandal and many other apparitions.Our Lady leads us to her Son.She comes to the little ones. I for one, will always believe as I was called there as many of you were. We are worse off now than in 1981 & she is here to lead us as her small army. Keep up the good work and hold steadfast. My prayers are with the visionaries. They have to be dumbfounded, although probably knew this long before us.

[bluecross]

What’s the smell of “liberation theology”?

[maryannlucy]

Blue cross, although you try to intimidate and mitigate the seriousness of Our Lady's messages against modernism, the messages are out there.
Medjugorje Message, January 25, 2017
“Dear children! Today I am calling you to pray for peace: peace in human hearts, peace in the families and peace in the world. Satan is strong and wants to turn all of you against God, and to return you to everything that is human, and to destroy in the heart all feelings towards God and the things of God. You, little children, pray and fight against materialism, modernism and egoism, which the world offers to you. Little children, you decide for holiness and I, with my Son Jesus, intercede for you. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”
Medjugorje Message, March 25, 2015
“Dear children! Also today the Most High permits me to be with you and to lead you on the way of conversion. Many hearts have shut themselves to grace and have become deaf to my call. You, little children, pray and fight against temptation and all the evil plans which the devil offers you through modernism. Be strong in prayer and with the cross in your hands pray that evil may not use you and may not conquer in you. I am with you and pray for you. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”
Medjugorje Message, May 25, 2010
“Dear children! God gave you the grace to live and to defend all the good that is in you and around you, and to inspire others to be better and holier; but Satan, too, does not sleep and through modernism diverts you and leads you to his way. Therefore, little children, in the love for my Immaculate Heart, love God above everything and live His commandments. In this way, your life will have meaning and peace will rule on earth. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”

[Maryh]

When the message describes 'Modernism',,, i struggle to see what exactly its referring to & why is it so bad?
My imagination goes into overdrive; trying to pinpoint exactly what modern trend that is a threat and is so evil?
There are many modern advances that have really helped the human race;
Vaccines that have obliterated so many diseases that used to kill people in their hundreds throughout all of human history.
There is so much that is good too is there not?

It's all getting way too complicated.

Think i need liberation from all this confusion at this stage!

[maryannlucy]

Maryh, this is purely my own thoughts, but my concept of modernism is that one adopts the morality of the day no matter how much it differs from the set in stone dogmas of the past. One could call it situational ethics... My older children are applying for college and there are maybe 7 or 8 choices to fill in for gender. Isn't that surprising? God made them male and female, but alas, no more according to the University of California you can choose any number of gender distinctions. That is an example of obvious 'modernism'. The more subtle ones also abound and are right at this moment being hotly contested in the Church. Our Lady says giving in to the 'spirit of the world' is not good. Stand your ground and don't give in to modernism.

[Maryh]

Right; i see what you mean now MaryAnnLucy. It's more 'moderism' in regards to spirituality and morality.
It's the same in my country where there seems to be a modern secular 'movement' to remove
all trace of it's Christian heritage.
It's very sad to see & it tends to come with a lot of arrogance too.