[bluecross]

Spirit Daily is reporting:

The conservative Catholic Italian website Corrispondenza Romana is reporting that German Cardinal Gerhard Mueller, the highest-ranking doctrinal authority in the Church as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has not been reconfirmed at his post by Pope Francis, and so will end his term of office in two days, on July 2.

Report also at NCR:
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-p ... -dismissed

[stunnedbyit]

If rumours are to be believed, Mueller is too conservative for Papa Francesco. Too much of a "rigorist" and not open to gradualism.

[johntt]

There is a rather good article about this development at:

https://cruxnow.com/analysis/2017/07/02 ... ives-move/

It includes the following quotes:

Müller is playing down any perceived breach between himself and Francis.

“There were no differences between me and Pope Francis,” Müller told a German newspaper, insisting there was no quarrel about Amoris Laetitia.

“It doesn’t bother me,” said the 69-year-old, smiling, about moving on. “Everyone has to retire at some point,” he said, adding that he will remain in Rome.

“I will do scholarly work, continue to exercise my function as cardinal, and do what I can in the care of souls. I have enough to do,” he said.

Müller told the German newspaper, however, that Francis told him that from now on all Vatican heads of departments won’t be renewed after five years, and his was simply the first case to come up.

[ActionReq]

Some background information
that says something different.
Is false news common?
Depends the truth on what you
decide to read?

https://international.la-croix.com/news ... table/5495

[johntt]

I don't think 'fake news' is involved here. But the Crux article certainly seems to have been fairly selective in its quotes!

May I recommend a very good video interview, in English with Cardinal Muller back in May:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhPGrOocZCU&t=910s

I think the interview shows the Cardinal to be a gentle, kindly, man who has been a faithful servant of the Pope so I can see how he might now be rather upset at how Pope Francis has dealt with him.

[stunnedbyit]

Since Pope Francis was made head of the Church, there has always been a suspicion that his love and compassion for lay people has not extended to the clergy. If Muller is telling the truth, it is a very disappointing state of affairs.

[bluecross]

Seems to me that some forum members can’t wait to pick up on negative press reports to put the boot into Pope Francis at the slightest opportunity.

Truly a disappointing state of affairs when the forum starts to become a place for sniping at Pope Francis.

I’m stunned by it!

[ActionReq]

I do not want to start nitpicking
unless at the press.
Something is not wrong at the
Vatican. Something is wrong at
the press. It is them who invent
and write down simply what
people want to read, and in the
end the issue is so unimportant
for many that they can stretch
the truth very much without
suffering consequences. Even
when the real truth comes out
they just laugh, having the blood
money already banked. Nobody
is going after them for having
published false information.
Most of the time all trust is lost
and all names are besmirched
and the ground has taken the
blood. And for what?
For the new bmw on the front-porch.

[bluecross]

The adapted painting on the front cover of Millenium is by the Italian Renaissance artist Andrea Mantegna.

It’s one of at least three paintings of Saint Sebastian produced by Mantegna.

This one is housed at the Louvre, Paris.

Like Pope Francis, Mantegna was capable of producing layered messages to invite thought and contemplation. There are several in the Sebastian painting.

I’ll point out just three.

1. What’s not shown on the cropped version of the cover of Millenium are the two guys who fired the arrows into St Sebastian. Reproduced below is the uncut version. The archer on the left is Mantegna, alongside his friend the Hungarian poet Janus Pannonius (later a bishop). Mantegna has also portrayed himself as St Sebastian. The artist was reputed to have a sharp tongue and a temper to match. He knew his weakness and so this portrayal is simply explaining that when we fire sharp arrows at others we are simply killing our own soul.

2. Mantegna was a man of faith, a Catholic, and felt scandalised by the corruption and state of the Church at that time (15th century). He envisaged the Church in a state of collapse, undermined from within. Notice the big house teetering on the edge of the weathered cliff in the top corner of the painting, and the ruins of antiquity below. What he is really saying is that the Big House, the Temple, is built from within our own heart, reminding us of the words of Jesus: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.”

3. Like many artists, Mantegna sought recognition and acclaim for his work. He came from humble roots and his talent was recognised by rich patrons. He was put on a pedestal, even worked for a time for a Pope; but as happens in this day fame and being in the public eye also bring out the critics from under the stones of desolation. Mantegna was probably wise enough, like the Pope who goes frequently to confession, to know his own faults and failings, hence his very public statement of firing arrows into his ‘on public display’ image.

[ActionReq]

Eyes for details?
Outrageous painting!

This guy has a modern recurve
laminated tapered bowtip shape
with modern reinforcement.
This is the shape where
limbtips evolved into.
Painted in a longbow era, in
an area where there were
nearly only crossbows available
at the time.

If anything, this is miraculous.

Here is a link to some high
end pro competition limbs
used nowadays at worldcups.
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/hoyt-fo ... limbs.html

Picture from worldcup
Look at the limbtip.
https://worldarchery.org/sites/default/ ... a1d2ba108e

[Prodigals]

I Nemici di Papa Francesco - evocative of Lucia's Third Secret.
"he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him"

[johntt]

I Nemici di Papa Francesco - evocative of Lucia's Third Secret.
"he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him"

I'm rather 'taken' by that comment. Here's a slightly longer quote from the Secret:

• The Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.

[stunnedbyit]

Seems to me that some forum members can’t wait to pick up on negative press reports to put the boot into Pope Francis at the slightest opportunity.

Truly a disappointing state of affairs when the forum starts to become a place for sniping at Pope Francis.

I’m stunned by it!

I've spent approximately 30 minutes considering your criticism of my post BC, and have eventually come to the conclusion that you're right. I think it's unreasonable to expect people not to have critical thoughts, but to air those views is another matter entirely.
Bearing that in mind, why did you recently air your doubts about one of the Medjugorje seers? Your thoughts/doubts on her are not based on hard facts so would it not have been better to keep them to yourself?
I only bring this up as it is you who rightfully suggests that rumours, assumptions and insinuations should be avoided.
Apologies if I'm seeing a comparison where there is none, but my own lens is all I have to work with!

[bluecross]

why did you recently air your doubts about one of the Medjugorje seers? Your thoughts/doubts on her are not based on hard facts so would it not have been better to keep them to yourself?
I only bring this up as it is you who rightfully suggests that rumours, assumptions and insinuations should be avoided.
Apologies if I'm seeing a comparison where there is none, but my own lens is all I have to work with!

SBI, you have a tendency to put words into the mouths of others: I never mentioned anything about rumours, assumptions and insinuations in this thread. My original post gave a link to two reports about Cardinal Muller not being re-confirmed in his post as Prefect of the CDF.

I didn’t express any thoughts on this.

And as this forum is about Medjugorje and discussion does take place about the visionaries, the messages and the secrets, then am I not free to express my opinion about this.

There are no hard facts about Mirjana’s claims or her messages. Some believe all she says, some don’t and there are those who are not sure what to believe.

But believing doesn’t necessarily make us saints.

[bluecross]

This guy has a modern recurve
laminated tapered bowtip shape
with modern reinforcement.

Mantegna was a visionary!

He was fascinated by Greek and Roman antiquities, the broken statues, the ruins and all that stuff, and was always ‘sculpting’ faces into the rock scenes, and the clouds. The above painting is packed with these features. More faces in these clouds than ever witnessed at Medjugorje!

But don’t ask me what they all represent. Maybe Mantegna loved his natural surroundings and could see life and God’s hand in the natural world, even in desolation and ruin.

I did a study recently on a two illustrations that Mantegna is thought to have produced. They were later attributed by experts to his brother-in-law Giovanni Bellini. But my novice opinion is that it is Mantegna’s hand at work.

check it out here: https://www.arnolfinimystery.com/albi-strabo

It’s the stuff we don’t see on the surface that is the most interesting and once again reveals Mantegna’s desire to give glory to God in all his work.

[maryannlucy]

I didn't bring this topic up. Here is a link to what some are saying: https://onepeterfive.com/source-before- ... questions/

[bluecross]

The article also says:

At the time of this writing, we have not been able to obtain confirmation of these events from Cardinal Müller, nor from his secretary, to whom we reached out for comment.

So it’s just more gossip and rumour about the Holy Father, spread and promoted on the Medjugorje Form.

But here’s a link to what Jesus is currently saying.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christianc ... ut-gossip/

BTW, I raised the topic because of Cardinal Müller’s involvement with the Medjugorje phenomenon enquiry, not as an excuse to bash the Pope or Cardinal Müller.

That’s the devil’s work, to distort, twirl and cast God’s creation into darkness. Lucifer –– the angel of false light.

Than God, His love for us is greater than all of our sins.

[johntt]

Yes, I would second bluecross' response to the 1peter5 article.

I think Catholics need to become aware of what certainly seems to be organized attacks on Pope Francis. The 1peter5 website shares the same extreme anti-Francis stance as the lifesitenews website I have previously mentioned while presenting themselves as orthodox Catholic sites.

I don't know if there is human organization going on in the background but I do see the devil firmly in charge of the attacks on Francis.

The latest non-attributable supposed comments from Pope Francis are classic. They probably contain bits of truth but it is the height of irresponsibility to be publishing this kind of thing when it acts as a direct encouragement to think badly of the Holy Father.

[maryannlucy]

For shame you say, Bluecross? You open a thread for discussion, but when a viewpoint is presented that opposes yours, you shame and denounce as demonic? Excuse me, but who died for our sins? It was our loving Saviour, Jesus Christ. We should most of all concern ourselves with trying to follow the Will of God with respect to His Church which He died to establish. Pope Francis didn't die in agony for the Church and yet he tries to mold it in his own image. You post artwork of him in agony for what....because he gets resistance from people who don't think the Church should be molded in pope francis's image, but in God's image? I feel that you like contention and purposely post things to stir up the pot. If that is how you like to spend your days, so be it, but you will at times get countered and that should not cause you to condemn, it should cause you to reflect.

[bluecross]

As I already explained, I opened the thread to post news of the change in Cardinal Müller’s circumstances and because the former Prefect of the CDF was close to the Medjugorje Commission enquiry.

I did not expect some members of the forum to use the opportunity to put the boot in on Pope Francis.

Yes, it’s shameful when Catholics seek out opportunities to attack the Holy Father in this way.

Sad also that they get angry when their attack is exposed for what it is.

So when a Catholic attacks the Head of the Church on earth, they attack Christ himself. The danger is that the poison spreads to other parts of the Body. It’s an abortion process, that attempts to destroy the process of Christ incarnating in others. It’s an attempt at removing the Head so that the Body dies. That’s why the Jewish leaders wanted Jesus crucified and in the process crush his followers.

When we attack the Pope, chosen, called and consecrated by God, we attack the Church. It’s akin to pushing a self destruct button when the attack comes from within.

God has not called any of us to attack the Pope (or even each other). But the devil does.

Someone drops a piece of poison in the thread and then others pick it up to spread the contamination.

A great danger and temptation for all of us ––– me included.

Something to refelect on: Why was the College of Cardinals guided (or even misguided) by the Holy Spirit to elect Cardinal Bergoglio as Pope?

[bluecross]

Take a close look at the abdomen area of St Sebastian. There are four heads, three in a row on the same level, and the fourth looking up from the left.

The bearded head on the left is the criminal who mocked Christ. The head on the right is the crimminal who asked to be remembered. The central figure is Christ. The arrow has pierced his mother looking up before it continued into the face of Jesus. It portrays a mental anguish which is reflected below in Mantegna as an arrow is shown passing through his head. The sculptured foot is a simple reference to the foot of the Cross. Mantegna is at the foot of the cross. His mental anguish is taken up by Mary and Jesus on the Cross.

Incidently, St Sebastian survived the onslaught of arrows but was later clubbed to death.

Dear children! Without prayer there is no peace. Therefore I say to you, dear children, pray at the foot of the cross for peace. Thank you for having responded to my call. (September 6, 1984)

[maryannlucy]

Poor Pope Francis is being so maligned by some members as he systematically guts the Church that Jesus died on the cross for. It's so easy for him to do when no one stands up to his steamrolling tactics. Our Lady will stand up to him. Watch.

[bluecross]

You present a very distorted view of Pope Francis. I wonder what the true reason is for doing this. Something personal, perhaps?

Watch Pope Francis soon take steps to protect Medjugorje for the future.

When the visionaries are dead and gone and there are no more messages or apparitions of Our Lady, it will be the pontifical status given to Medjugorje by Pope Francis that will protect the future of the tree producing so much good fruit that continues to benefit the Church.

You should know that Our Lady and the Holy Spirit work hand-in hand.

If the Holy Spirit has guided the college of cardinals to lead the Church, then rest assured Mary, Mother of the Church and spouse of the Holy Spirit will be responding to the Pope’s prayers and efforts, big-time.

[maryannlucy]

I will watch and pray.

[Maryh]

When we attack the Pope, chosen, called and consecrated by God, we attack the Church. It’s akin to pushing a self destruct button when the attack comes from within.

I find it very difficult to feel connected to the church and its leadership very often-maybe even 80% of the time.
It's all too easy to feel very disconnected and remote from the big boys club in Rome. Honestly i don't know the first thing about them.
It becomes political. I often have a lot of very serious concerns as to what is being said and done or not done & how confused people seem & how all the bishops don't agree or appear to even be on the same page in simple matters & seem to go in total opposite directions from where you think they perhaps should be going, especially with regards Medjugorje. Many seem like they've gone totally rogue in my ignorant opinion.

If i'd air concerns or questions its usually to gain more understanding.
Obviously, none of us are in personal communication with the Pope,--Who are any of us to judge him? -or are we? & we're all of such totally different personalities too,
some personalities automatically understand one another and others are like chalk and cheese.

I wouldn't automatically assume that if somebody has a problem with the direction and style the Pope has, that they are trying to attack him. I think this is normal.
Personally, i love when i read that the Pope makes a special effort not to use any aspect of 'religion' to be like a battering ram
over people's heads. I know Jesus would be the same way; his yoke is easy. I think there would be room to discuss and ask questions & freedom to be as we are.

God is always leading people in ways and directions that are not easy to understand, & might make no sense at all, not even to ourselves.
If we were all totally of one mind and never differed in views, well then the church would look more like a cult doing mind control, or
some kind of dictatorship like North Korea.
I think its the same in every family & it's healthy to be able to air difficulties and hopefully be able to bear with one another and give one another the benefit of the doubt as to where they're coming from.

Anyway, that artwork depicting the pope & the connection with Fatima is very thought provoking.
It wouldn't surprise me if this doom and catastrophic scenario played out in real life, especially with the depth of hatred there is
towards the church and its members & all the misunderstandings and trouble that seems to come with the territory.

Those words of Fatima about the arrows and whatnot...i wonder would those be referring to actual events that would be played out in real life or more on the spiritual realm. The old fiery darts??
It feels like its already happening to some.