Chat with other believers about Medjugorje.

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#230898
Did anyone pick up on the subtle reference Pope France made recently to “the secrets of the Mother of God”?

It was mentioned in his homily for the Solemnity of the Mother of God celebrated on January 1.

He stated that in the Gospel account of Christmas, Mary does not speak.

Was he referencing the Medjugorje messages to Marija on December 25, and to Mirjana on January 2.

Pope Francis added:
The Gospel goes on to say that Mary kept all these things, pondering them in her heart. What were these things? They were joys and sorrows. On the one hand, the birth of Jesus, the love of Joseph, the visit of the shepherds, that radiant night. But on the other, an uncertain future, homelessness “because there was no place for them in the inn” (Lk 2:7), the desolation of rejection, the disappointment of having to give birth to Jesus in a stable. Hopes and worries, light and darkness: all these things dwelt in the heart of Mary. What did she do? She pondered them, that is to say she dwelt on them, with God, in her heart. She held nothing back; she locked nothing within out of self-pity or resentment. Instead, she gave everything over to God. That is how she “kept” those things. We “keep” things when we hand them over: by not letting our lives become prey to fear, distress or superstition, by not closing our hearts or trying to forget, but by turning everything into a dialogue with God. God, who keeps us in his heart, then comes to dwell in our lives.

These, then, are the secrets of the Mother of God: silently treasuring all things and bringing them to God. And this took place, the Gospel concludes, in her heart. The heart makes us look to the core of the person, his or her affections and life.
Is the Pope’s mention of “the secrets of the Mother of God” a veiled reference to the “secrets” claimed by the Medjugorje seers?

Is Pope Francis making a similar statement to the one he made about Our Lady not being a post-mistress?

It is a very assertive statement, seemingly proclaimed with authority as Pope and bishop of Rome during Mass.

Not long ago Mirjana said she would be happy to reveal the Medjugorje secrets to the Pope, if he wanted. It seems that in his homily, the Pope is saying he already knows the secrets of Our Lady’s heart.
#230902
Do you think maybe its just a co-incidence Bluecross? :)
I would hope so as its a bit too 'mind game' for my liking otherwise. I don't like when people
take indirect pops at others or about things.
Maybe he is suggesting that the only secrets to consider when it comes to Our Lady is the way
she lived her life?
Our Lady's character and way of coping under extremely hard circumstances does seem quite
mysterious in a lot of ways so i'm hoping its more to do with this.

Its the silence that can come across as secretive. In the bible Mary rarely speaks.
Its a huge mystery how Our Lady stayed so strong & trusting under those circumstances he listed.
So by describing the way she was pondering things along with God, he seems to be high-lighting her example for us.

"The heart has reasons that reason does not understand"- Blaise Pascal.


Just my opinion.
#230903
Your mention of ‘mind-game’ is not one I would apply to Our Lady, but, as Mirjana jokes, Gospa is a woman and so, seemingly, entitled to change her mind when she wants to.
Its a huge mystery how Our Lady stayed so strong & trusting under those circumstances he listed.
Not really, when we are told she was chosen, is full of grace and blessed among women. She trusted completely, even though she may not have fully understood all the circumstances happening in her life.

She said ‘yes’, and didn’t change her mind.

It may be seen as coincidence that Pope Francis mentioned Mary remained silent in the Gospel account of Christmas, and that she spoke and gave messages to two Medjugorje visionaries on December 25 and January 2.

It may also be a coincidence that the Pope made reference to “the secrets of the Mother of God” ( a phrase he has never used before).

It may also be a coincidence that the mention was made on the day dedicated to Peace in the World... World Day of Peace.

Pope Francis also said at the start of his homily, “Mother of God is the most important title of Our Lady.”

Never, in any of the thousands of Medjugorje messages has Mary ever mentioned her title “Mother of God”.

The title (Theotokos) is “formally defined as official dogma” in the Orthodox Church.
#230904
I don't know Bluecross, however, if i started guessing that the pope had Medjugorje in mind when he
said all those things, i would think Pope Francis was trying to play a mind game if he was trying to connect the two. :)
bluecross wrote:Is the Pope’s mention of “the secrets of the Mother of God” a veiled reference to the “secrets” claimed by the Medjugorje seers?
I don't think he would do this. Just my opinion. But maybe he is? I could be wrong.

I think he was directly referring to 'the secret' between Our Lady & God, that is an example for us to follow as well.
bluecross wrote:Never, in any of the thousands of Medjugorje messages has Mary ever mentioned her title “Mother of God”.
No, but she is always mentioning Jesus as 'her son'. All the time.
Do you think there is a clear title she relates to the most and that she prefers when it comes to her messages in Medjugorje?
#230905
Queen of Peace
...if i started guessing that the pope had Medjugorje in mind when he
said all those things, i would think Pope Francis was trying to play a mind game if he was trying to connect the two. :)
Mind games with who?

Pope Francis was addressing the whole world with his homily, but anyone waiting for the Mother of God to reveal the Medjugorje secrets is invited, in the meantime, to ponder on the Pope’s comments and the secrets he refers to based on the Word of God and the Gospel message.
#230906
bluecross wrote:Mind games with who?
With the listener who is waiting for him to make a conclusion re: Medjugorje & may be reading into things?

I would find any 'veiled reference' to be kind of along those lines, not very straight-forward.
But would he 'veil' anything deliberately...?
The language barrier is hard enough to understand.

I'd have to take it at face value anyway or i'd be off on a mental gymnastics's tangent...over-thinking!

I just hope there is no disagreements/problems as to Our Lady's correct title.
Unity doesn't always mean uniformity anyway.

Here in Ireland; we call our Lady both the Queen of Ireland & the Queen of peace! :)
#230908
bluecross wrote:
These, then, are the secrets of the Mother of God:
He's telling us all about Mary's silent concerns, apprehensions, and anxieties that he speculates may have been in her heart, and he calls them "secrets".

I think it's just a case of poor word selection on his part (or poor translation into English).
#230909
I think it's just a case of poor word selection on his part (or poor translation into English).
Except that the text is published on the Vatican website, and presumably, the translation is checked and approved before publication.

The word ‘secrets’ is used in all eight translations of the homily, including Arabic.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco ... -pace.html
He's telling us all about Mary's silent concerns, apprehensions, and anxieties that he speculates may have been in her heart, and he calls them "secrets".
As many of us speculate and can become apprehensive and anxious about the Medjugorje secrets?
#230910
bluecross wrote:Overthinking... a temptation that’s never far away. Ever thought why people do this?
I have actually, :P there's lots of reasons why, Anxiety, personality type, nosiness, interest, for fun, problem solving, bad habits, so many reasons.
Some people's intuition goads them on to over-thinking too....there's always something to get to the bottom of.

Anyway; my new years resolution is to do this:

Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.

Ok, another possible reason is that Pope said this as some kind of 'freudian slip' perhaps?
He may or may not have had Medjugorje on his mind.
bluecross wrote:Rosemary Scallon has a lot to answer for!
:lol:
#230914
Bluecross, I don't know why you doubt the continued visits from Our Lady to the visionaries. The early days of the apparitions were said to valid by the group appointed by the Church just recently. ( I can not recall the official name of the group )

Now if the later apparitions were false then the visionaries and Father Yozzo ( sorry again for the spelling) would have to be telling one amazing whopper of a lie.

If this is the case then God made a very big mistake in entrusting this mission to them. There was another who was trusted and then lost the plot but he was chosen by the visionaries not by God. For this to be a lie it must have been forseen by God and all part of the plan. Ahh , but it is just not a lie. It would have to be a master plan of satan and a major victory for him to tempt the visionaries into making the continuation of the visions up. It's so unlikely BC. I just can not believe it's a lie.
#230915
This time of waiting before the announcement of the secrets is helping us to draw closer to Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the Father. The graces that have been poured out in Medjugorje include so many healings, conversions, religious vocations, reconciliations and awakenings. These beautiful acts are not the work of satan. The seers have stated repeatedly that they are no better than anyone else. They are doing their best to faithfully carry out what the Blessed Mother has asked them to do. They did not choose to be seers, but they accepted their responsibilities with all the positive and negative aspects.
#230916
maryannlucy wrote: They are doing their best to faithfully carry out what the Blessed Mother has asked them to do.
bluecross might argue that this is true for only the first of the apparitions, as the Church has recently confirmed. As for the rest of it since then, we're waiting for the test results to come back from the lab.

If it turns out that there is some problem with the rest of it, then as thebpman suggests, there will be a lot of fallout including a good priest (Fr Jozo) having a lot of egg on his face.
#230917
Fr Jozo claims to have seen the Virgin Mary in St James’ church on the fourth day of the apparitions.

I don’t doubt this.

He was tried, sentenced and imprisoned by the Communist authorities two months later and never resumed his role as parish priest at Medjugorje when he was released.

Whatever decision the Church makes on the Medjugorje phenomenon it will not deny Fr Jozo’s claim of seeeing Our Lady, nor will he have egg on his face for making this claim. In fact, his claim as well as imprisonment, may have gone a long way to convincing the Commission of the veracity of the phenomenon during the first seven days.

Neither should we forget that Fr Jozo was not convinced of the apparitons at first and he and other friars rigoursly inteviewed all six seers during the first week. These interviews have been transcribed and published, and will have also aided the Commission to reach a judgement on the first seven days.

But seeing an apparition of Our Lady does not make anyone perfect or stop them confessing their sins.
#230920
Dear All,

One cannot second guess what Fr. Jozo has seen or not seen. Going to Medjugorje is a life changing experience for many. It is amazing that there are still some who do not believe nor credit others who do. If believing that one sees or hear or senses the Blessed Mother and fruit are fluorished, then good has happened from the experience. Neither the secrets nor the vissionairries should be the purpose of the trio nor the main attraction but people are human and inquisitive. Leaving Medjujorge produces a different outcome for the pilgrim

Love in Christ,
MRSTOL
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