Chat with other believers about Medjugorje.

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By maryannlucy
#230932
“Dear children, you whom my Son loves, you whom I love with an immeasurable motherly love, do not permit for selfishness, for self love, to rule the world. Do not permit for love and goodness to be hidden. You who are loved, who have come to know the love of my Son, remember that to be loved means to love. My children, have faith. When you have faith you are happy and are spreading peace; your soul trembles with joy. My Son is in such a soul. When you are giving yourself for the faith, when you are giving yourself for love, when you are doing good to your neighbor, my Son smiles in your soul. Apostles of my love, I am turning to you as a mother. I am gathering you around myself and I desire to lead you on the way of love and faith, on the way which leads to the light of the world. I am here for the sake of love, for the sake of faith, because with my motherly blessing I desire to give you hope and strength on your way – because the way which leads to my Son is not easy. It is full of renunciation, giving, sacrifice, forgiveness and much, much love. But this way leads to peace and happiness. My children, do not believe lying voices which speak to you about false things, false glitter. You, my children, return to the Scripture. I am looking at you with immeasurable love, and through God’s grace am making myself evident to you. My children, set out with me. May your soul tremble with joy. Thank you.”
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By Prodigals
#230935
maryannlucy wrote: do not believe lying voices which speak to you about false things, false glitter.
Where is the real meaning in life?

Everyone desires a satisfaction and meaning in life. The problem is many people seek it by foolishly pursuing this empty world's "lying voices which speak to you about false things, false glitter".

“Vanity of vanities, all things are vanity” - the futile pursuit of true happiness by allowing ourselves to blindly chase the empty, hollow glittering diversions this shallow world offers.

We run lemming-like after worthless temporal things seeking happiness. But there is no satisfaction to be found in them not because the desire for satisfaction in this life is wrong, but because so many seek meaning in this life in the wrong places, in the wrong things, and in the wrong way. Placing the glittering nothings of this life as your god results in the end in a meaningless vapid existence.

So many in this world are so blind that they do not see that we are created not for this world and its "things", but for eternal loving communion with Him and being filled by Him in return with His all-satisfying love. What they fail to understand is that we can find true meaning in life only in the God who has created all things, and who loves us beyond all measure.

Both Our Lady and Qoheleth are exactly right.
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By maryannlucy
#230936
Since Our Lady has recommended that we long for heaven, I find myself thinking more about eternity and eternal life. Our culture teaches us to think ahead in secular terms with retirement, money, health, travel, etc. etc... but we need to prepare so much more our souls for eternity because we do not know how long we have here. We need to stress to children, just as you said, Prodigals, that only in God do we find completion, love, and peace and to foster friendship with Him through prayer, the sacraments, and the Scriptures.
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By bluecross
#230937
do not believe lying voices which speak to you about false things, false glitter.
The apparitions, the presumed current apparitions: the [Medjugorje Commission] report has its doubts. I personally am more nasty, I prefer the Madonna as Mother, our Mother, and not a woman who’s the head of a telegraphic office, who everyday sends a message at such hour. This is not the Mother of Jesus. And these presumed apparitions don’t have a lot of value. This I say as a personal opinion. But, it’s clear. Who thinks that the Madonna says, ‘come tomorrow at this time, and at such time I will say a message to that seer?’ No. The two apparitions are distinguished.

Pope Francis, May 14, 2017

http://medjugorjelive.org/2017/05/14/wh ... edjugorje/
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By bluecross
#230939
Mary, a disciple of Christ

"But look here, my brothers and sisters, concentrate more, I beg you, on what follows, concentrate more on what Christ the Lord said as he stretched out his hand over his disciples: This is my mother and these are my brothers; and whoever does the will of my Father who sent me, that person is a brother to me and a sister and a mother (Mt 12:49-50). Didn't the Virgin Mary do the will of the Father? I mean, she believed by faith, she conceived by faith, she was chosen to be the one from whom salvation in the very midst of the human race would be born for us, she was created by Christ before Christ was created in her. Yes, of course, holy Mary did the will of the Father. And therefore it means more for Mary to have been a disciple of Christ than to have been the mother of Christ. It means more for her, an altogether greater blessing, to have been Christ's disciple than to have been Christ's mother. That is why Mary was blessed, because even before she gave him birth, she bore her teacher in her womb.

Just see if it isn't as I say. While the Lord was passing by, performing divine miracles, with the crowds following him, a woman said: Fortunate is the womb that bore you. And how did the Lord answer, to show that good fortune is not really to be sought in mere family ties? Rather blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it (Lk 11:27-28). So that is why Mary, too, is blessed, because she heard the word of God and kept it. She kept truth safe in her mind even better than she kept flesh safe in her womb. Christ is truth, Christ is flesh; Christ as truth was in Mary's mind, Christ as flesh in Mary's womb; that which is in the mind is greater than what is carried in the womb.

Mary is holy, Mary is blessed, but the Church is something better than the Virgin Mary. Why? Because Mary is part of the Church, a holy member, a quite exceptional member, the supremely wonderful member, but still a member of the whole body. That being so, it follows that the body is something greater than the member. The Lord is the head, and the whole Christ is head and body. How shall I put it? We have a divine head, we have God as our head."

St. Augustine, Sermon 72/A, 7
http://www.vatican.va/spirit/documents/ ... no_en.html
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By Maryh
#230942
Totally dumbfounded this weather Bluecross;

All i know is that the less time we spend with the truth, the more likely it is we'll believe in a lie.

That's a quote; don't know who said it.
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By Maryh
#230945
Maybe the Vatican dislikes 'the cult' of Mary that seems to occur sometimes.

Its strange; some people have no regard for Our Lady & want to go 'straight to the man above',
then others have more of a devotion to things like the rosary, first Saturdays in honour of Our Lady.

I wonder sometimes is it all balanced? :?
User avatar
By bluecross
#230946
Maybe the Vatican dislikes 'the cult' of Mary that seems to occur sometimes.
We bishops, after a three-year-long commission study, accept Medjugorje as a holy place, as a shrine. This means we have nothing against it if someone venerates the Mother of God in a manner also in agreement with the teaching and belief of the Catholic Church...
Cardinal Kuharic, August 1993
Apostolic Exhortation of His Holiness Paul VI
MARIALIS CULTUS
for the Right Ordering and Development of Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary

February 2, 1974

http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en ... ultus.html
User avatar
By bluecross
#230948
I'm like Job in this weeks gospel sometimes wondering about things!
In today’s gospel... “Everybody is looking for you”.

And in the words of Elvis:

When no-one else can understand me
When everything I do is wrong
You give me hope and consolation
You give me strength to carry on
And you're always there to lend a hand
In everything I do
That's the wonder
The wonder of you
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By Merlorrich
#230949
Reading this message I was reminded of the abortion debate (as part of the greater rise of liberalism/secularism) in Ireland.
Quote wrote:“Dear children... do not permit for selfishness, for self love, to rule the world. Do not permit for love and goodness to be hidden....”
It seems that people are being to encouraged to do what suits them and what they want by those in government and those given a prominent voice in the media, whether written or visual. These voices often appear well-polished and often put down/demean/ridicule meeker voices with disparaging comments. As a result the meeker voices hopefully representing love and goodness appear hidden.

Even though we might appear meek, we should not give in, in Ireland, especially now as the stakes are so high.
Quote wrote:“....My children, have faith. When you have faith you are happy and are spreading peace; your soul trembles with joy. My Son is in such a soul.When you are giving yourself for the faith, when you are giving yourself for love, when you are doing good to your neighbor, my Son smiles in your soul.....”
Be a good example, there is only ONE saviour of the world. Be yourself in God and God will take care of the rest.
Quote wrote:“....because the way which leads to my Son is not easy. It is full of renunciation, giving, sacrifice, forgiveness and much, much love. But this way leads to peace and happiness. ....”
Those of us who feel put down/demeaned/ridiculed should persevere and forgive our transgressors (although it is not easy). Above all we should show love.
Quote wrote:“.... My children, do not believe lying voices which speak to you about false things, false glitter.....”
with this statement I think of all the sweet sounding catch phrases such as 're-productive rights', 'my body my choice', 'the 'anti-choicers'', 'what do men know?'

These phrases are designed to stir up feelings of independence, superiority, selfishness, conflict and simultaneously separate women from the most important human friend and probably rock (save Jesus ;) ) in their life: their husband.

The phrases glamorize false things; they are false glitter. They make one feel like there is no-guilt to the choice they make. But you cannot take away a persons conscience, it remains long after sweet sounding words turn bitter (probably this is one of the things referred to in the book of Revelations).
Quote wrote:“...My children, set out with me. May your soul tremble with joy.....”
Let's set out with Our Lady and have Jesus in our souls.

Changing topics just a little:
Prodigals wrote:“Where is the real meaning in life?”
I remember a priest in Medjugorje saying: The love of God is the meaning of life.
Maryh wrote:“All i know is that the less time we spend with the truth, the more likely it is we'll believe in a lie. ”
I am always wary when people give their interpretations of things. After all we are all only human. I think the best guide we have is to trust our consciences and pray.
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By Maryh
#230951
Great to hear from you Merlorrich

I find the abortion debate an extreme vexation to the spirit these days.
It seems fraught with dangers & i sometimes struggle to feel civilised, let alone Christian. Its really challenging.

A few things i got to remember is to: Be angry but do not sin,
Love my enemies,
Guard against divisions and strife & try to be a peacemaker.
Stop seeing the speck in my neighbours eye because we're all sinners.
Speak the truth with love.
(I have definitely come up short on each of these accounts on different occasions)

Your post was really encouraging so thanks for writing it.
Merlorrich wrote:I am always wary when people give their interpretations of things. After all we are all only human. I think the best guide we have is to trust our consciences and pray.
Your so right; if i don't strive to pray more -i just won't hear that 'still small voice ' & the end result would be disastrous if left to my own
devices.
Merlorrich wrote:Above all we should show love.
User avatar
By Merlorrich
#230963
Maryh wrote:I find the abortion debate an extreme vexation to the spirit these days.
It seems fraught with dangers & i sometimes struggle to feel civilised, let alone Christian. Its really challenging.
Yes the temptation is to hit back, at times it even seems to make sense to do so. It's a test of faith for sure. What Ireland could be become is worrying.
Maryh wrote: A few things i got to remember is to: Be angry but do not sin,
Love my enemies,
Guard against divisions and strife & try to be a peacemaker.
Stop seeing the speck in my neighbours eye because we're all sinners.
Speak the truth with love.
A friend of mine once said: there's being honest and there's being brutal. One thing I would ask though is: what is truth ? We all have our truths and the truths we think we speak could be misleading. In the enablement culture we have in Ireland, the truth has to be politically correct. The best solution I think is to pray.
Maryh wrote: Your so right; if i don't strive to pray more -i just won't hear that 'still small voice ' & the end result would be disastrous if left to my own
devices.
Agreed.
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By bluecross
#230965
“So you are a king then?” said Pilate. “It is you who say it” answered Jesus. “Yes, I am a king. I was born for this. I came into the world for this: to bear witness to the truth; and all who are on the side of truth listen to my voice.” “Truth?” said Pilate, “what is that?”; and with that he went out again to the Jews and said, “I find no case against him. But according to a custom of yours I should release the king of the Jews?” At this they shouted: “Not this man,” they said “but Barabbas”. Barabbas was a brigand.
John 18 : 37-40
From this passage we can see that the people were given the opportunity to listen and vote for the side of truth, but chose not to, preferring instead to put truth to death, the truth being life in Christ.

That’s the crux of the abortion issue facing voters in Ireland. Choose life or death.

It’s the same issue we all face daily, to choose life in Christ or choose sin that leads to death.
Choose life and not death of the soul, little children, and in this time when you meditate upon the suffering and death of Jesus I invite you to decide for life which blossomed through the Resurrection, and that your life may be renewed today through conversion that shall lead you to eternal life.
part Medjugorje message, March 25, 1996
By stunnedbyit
#230966
Re. Ireland
The fear has to be that many will vote in favour of abortion specifically to stick 2 fingers up at the Church. Many would feel justified due to the historical abuse. It would be another way to weaken an institution that they regard as corrupt.
User avatar
By bluecross
#230967
Pope Francis speaks of corruption in his homily today.

http://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope-franc ... marta.html

Wanting to stick two fingers up to the Church doesn’t justify someone to vote in favour of abortion.

Those who may vote in favour are likely to be those who do not attend Mass or have left the Church.

And as a Franciscan priest at Medjugorje once said: “Those who choose to leave the Church, commit an act of abortion in itself by extracting themselves from the Body of Christ.”

The Body of Christ has always presented a challenge to people, even in the time of Jesus.

The Jews started arguing witth one another asking “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus replied, “I tell you solemnly, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will not have life in you.” (John 6)

Many of his followers found this intolerable language, left him and stopped following him.

Sticking two fingers up to the Body of Christ is what many people did to Jesus when he was crucified. They jeered and mocked him.

The Church is for sinners. Should we be surprised that at times it becomes sick and corrupted?

But we can be consoled knowing that Jesus said: “I did not come for the righteous but for sinners”.

All of us, even those who profess to belong to the Church, are in need of constant healing.

And we are all blessed with the gift of healing. We heal others when we forgive them for their trespasses, and in turn receive healing accordingly from Jesus.

It’s our daily prayer that this should happen.
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By bluecross
#230968
Interestingly, there is a national strategy in Ireland operated by the Government’s Department of Health to reduce the rate of suicides in the country.

It’s called Connecting For Life.

Soon the people of Ireland will once again vote on the abortion issue, whether to continue destroying life or saving it.

Such is the confused state of the Irish government when on one hand it sets out to save lives, and on the other hand promotes a policy of abortion.

Then there is the political situation where many people seek a United Ireland, yet the government continues to divide its people by allowing the shedding of blood. Connecting for Life indeed.

In reality, it’s a process of disconnecting from life. And the killing doesn’t stop overnight as the war between north and south demonstrated.

A grandmother of mine used to tell me of a time when British soldiers would bayonet pregnant Irish women. Those days are over, thank God, or are they?

This time the Republic cannot blame the Brits and past history for its woes. It will be themselves who make the choice whether to allow the slaughter of more innocent lives on Irish soil.

The centenary of Ireland’s Civil War is not far off 2022-23. No doubt the Irish Government will be mark the occasion, honouring the dead and the brave men who battled. But will the government ever stand in silence and commemorate the aborted children and and all the young men and women driven to take their own lives in a country that can only offer a solution to it problems by assisting in more deaths?

Our Lady of Knock, Queen of Peace, where are you?

Thankfully, Pope Francis is due to visit Ireland before the abortion vote takes place.
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By Prodigals
#230969
bluecross wrote: Thankfully, Pope Francis is due to visit Ireland before the abortion vote takes place.
Apart from a fervent subjective hope that his presence will have a favorable impact on the vote, do you have any objective opinion of whether Francis visit will have any effect at all?
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By bluecross
#230970
The Pope’s visit may influence opinion and votes, just as his personal opinion on the ongoing claims of apparitions at Medjugorje has challenged and influenced many who follow the phenomenon.

If he speaks against abortion during his visit, there will always be those ready to oppose or agree with him.
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By Maryh
#230971
As far as i know, the referendum is being held before Pope Francis visit & this is being done
deliberately. They even stated as much. That's their plan.

Fully agree with what SBI said; its always in the argument; how the Catholic church treated us in the past &
has zero moral authority now to tell anyone what to do or how to live its life.
I feel so sorry for all the good priests out there doing the best they can. Its so hostile.
While saying that; i do realise there are some families who have been seriously hurt at the hands of misrepresentatives of Christ.
For them it is totally unmanageable to continue in close proximity to organised religion.
Too much hurt is involved & i believe that God will know and understand their hearts under those circumstances.
But
So much more needs to be done to reassure and console those people and make amends. Some are irretrievable broken though.
Merlorrich wrote:What Ireland could be become is worrying.
I think what Ireland already is, is worrying. I never realised how dark it got; how little strong leadership it has.
Its lurching to and fro, it is totally unstable, in all its ways and making it up as it goes along.
Doctors are also calling for it to be repealed as well & its people like this who people will listen to as the rightful authorities on the matter.

There are so many viewing abortion as always the compassionate solution to women undergoing problem and crisis pregnancies.
Who is anyone to take away another person's choice and tell them what to do? That is the accusation put to many people who are pro-life.
They're being ripped off and sold a lie. Women are given the choice even whether or not to see the ultrasound before they have an abortion.
The truth is being shielded from them. This says it all.

A christian counsellor Patrick Doyle- (i heard on thedovetv on youtube) once said about Jesus, how when he was with 'sinners'; how they never
felt judged or condemned around him. Definitely something for me to keep in mind the next time i'm tempted to be brutal.
He also said that it is the holy spirit's job to convict people. So i cannot go around savaging into people and still consider myself a christian.

Even God doesn't impose on a persons free will, I fear he'll just give up on us Irish people to a reprobate mind like in Romans 1:28.
If there's anything that i can do though i better find out by praying more. Already it feels like the battle has being lost.
Another thing i noticed is how my love has gone cold, I really noticed it. :worried
Don't think that was God's plan for us.
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By bluecross
#230973
Fully agree with what SBI said; its always in the argument; how the Catholic church treated us in the past &
has zero moral authority now to tell anyone what to do or how to live its life.
Only this week Pope Francis asked the question in his Lenten Homily: “How many go through life believing that they are sufficient unto themselves, and end up entrapped by loneliness!”
Another thing i noticed is how my love has gone cold, I really noticed it. :worried
Don't think that was God's plan for us.
Pope Francis also started his homily saying: “With this message, I would like again this year to help the entire Church experience this time of grace anew, with joy and in truth. I will take my cue from the words of Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew: “Because of the increase of iniquity, the love of many will grow cold” (24:12).

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/ ... a2018.html
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By Prodigals
#230974
Maryh has pointed out that many hold the view that the Church "has zero moral authority now to tell anyone what to do or how to live its life", and we see that a large majority of the population has voted to legalize same-sex "marriage" (an oxymoron to be sure).

Due to the abuses the Church clergy has visited on people of good faith, the last remaining ranks of Catholics are now under siege and starting to question their own beliefs.

Large segments of Catholic priests are supportive of this rush into secular humanism, feeling this is an appropriate 'mea culpa' for the past sins if the Church. Amazingly, they do not consider this support to be in conflict with their faith, or with the vows of their priesthood. I remember reading that a priest of the ACP proposed that the Church in Ireland stop teaching children about the Church’s doctrines on sexual morality because the Church was out of touch with the wants of the people, and that the people are no longer receptive to what they consider the hypocritical preachings of the Catholic clergy.

The pope is entering an arena where people are no longer willing to listen to speeches and sermons on morality from the Church.

bc says
bluecross wrote:The Pope’s visit may influence opinion and votes,
It may do a lot more than merely 'influence'. The effect may also be akin to pouring petrol on smoldering embers, serving to explode the hateful passions of those who are at the forefront of the catastrophic collapse of the faith in Ireland, and who are leading the headlong descent into apostasy.
By stunnedbyit
#230975
Prodigals wrote: It may do a lot more than merely 'influence'. The effect may also be akin to pouring petrol on smoldering embers, serving to explode the hateful passions of those who are at the forefront of the catastrophic collapse of the faith in Ireland, and who are leading the headlong descent into apostasy.
Like most European countries, this widespread apostasy will leave a vacuum. Islam will fill that vacuum as people are attracted to faith groups which have a fervent, unapologetic, straightforward belief system. People are also attracted to faith groups which foster a sense of community and belonging (Islam).

By the way, I've not become Muslim, I just happen to see why many people (who have NOT studied the historical Muhammad) will see a relevance in Islam that they don't currently see in the Church. The Church (at the moment) presents itself as more confused and less confident than Islam.
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By Prodigals
#230976
stunnedbyit wrote: Islam will fill that vacuum . . . .
In the case of the Irish, I don't see that happening. They've thrown up their hands in disgust of any hierarchical religious system of beliefs. Religions - all of them - are out of synchronization with the humanism Irish society is moving towards. Rather, I see them devolving into a worldly secularism that embraces their worldview regarding things like abortion, contraception, divorce, etc.

The last thing they want at this time is to be told to conform to what they see as an antiquated set of behavioral codes - i.e., a structured religion - that goes squarely against the no-more-rules human freedom they are rapidly moving toward. They no longer want lives constricted by religious doctrine, but are drawn instead to the modernity of the present world and all the pretty lies it offers.

Timothy wrote about it:

"For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths."
By stunnedbyit
#230977
Prodigals wrote:
stunnedbyit wrote: Islam will fill that vacuum . . . .
In the case of the Irish, I don't see that happening. They've thrown up their hands in disgust of any hierarchical religious system of beliefs. Religions - all of them - are out of synchronization with the humanism Irish society is moving towards. [/i]
You could be right Prodigals but, in my opinion, Islam can grow and flourish in any country which has an ultra leftist in power, i.e. Trudeau and Canada.
As much as Islam and neo liberalism differ, they seem to offer benefits to each other (in the West anyway). I think that left wing governments act as the useful idiots for conservative Muslims who desire the gradual enforcement of Sharia law.
Now before anyone jumps on my back, I am not being leftophobic or Islamophobic, I am just making an observation on the situation we currently have in the West. I do realize that not all Muslims thirst for a Caliphate.
your prayers are needed

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