Medjugorje Forum

MaryH: My question wasn’t presented to extract an answer from you. But in my own case, I would have no problem with the scenarios.

By your devious reasoning, following St. Paul's instruction leads us to condemn ourselves.

It’s not devious reasoning, Prodigals, we shall be judged by the merciful judgment we apply to others. Jesus teaches that our sins are forgiven as we forgive those who tresspass against us.

Jesus and not Paul also says:

Do not imagine that I am going to accuse you before the Father; you place your hope on Moses (the Mosaic Law), and Moses will be your accuser. (John 5 : 45)

Do not judge, and you will not be judged; because the judgements you give are the judgements you will get, and the amount you measure out is the amount you will be given out. (Matthew 7 : 1-2)

No doubt you will be familiar with the rest of the passage, verses 3-5.

As for predators, read sinners. Shun them as you choose, but Jesus did not. He sat down and ate with them, welcomed them to his table.

To shun sinners is to deviate from the example Jesus gave to his disciples. That’s why many people who choose to shun sinners get upset with Pope Francis. He welcomes sinners, especially those on the margins of society. But like the Pharisees and scribes did with Jesus, there are some who plot to do away with him.

More by St Paul:

The law, of course, as we all know, is spiritual; but I am unspiritual; I have been sold as a slave to sin. I cannot understand my own behaviour. I fail to carry out the things I want to do, and I find myself doing the very things I hate. When I act against my own will, this means that I have self that acknowledges that the Law is good, and so the thing behaving in that way is not myself but sin living in me. The fact is, I know of nothing good living in me – living, that is, in my unspiritual self – for though the will to do what is good in me, the performance is not, with the result that instead of doing the good things I want to do, I carry out the sinful things I do not want. When I act against my will, then, it is not my true self doing it, but sin which lives in me.

In fact, this seems to be the rule, that every single time I want to do good it is something evil that comes to hand. In my inmost self I dearly love God’s Law, but I can see that my body follows a different law that battles against the law which my reason dictates. This is what makes me a prisoner of that law of sin which lives inside my body.

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body doomed to death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In short, it is I who with my reason serve the Law of God, and no less I who serve my unspiritual self the law of sin.

Romans 7 : 14-25

bluecross wrote: To shun sinners is to deviate from the example Jesus gave to his disciples.

Then you've just convicted St. Paul of being a heretic for his writings in the Bible, and leading us away from Christ.

Shunning them is being merciful to them. They don't need to be circulating with us. For their stain, the thing they need most is to be alone in the desert, with no distractions, away from the occasion of sin to which they succumbed, giving them the opportunity to self-reflect on what they've done, to truly repent, and to re-connect themselves with the Savior they so glibly abandoned.

That's showing them real mercy - mercy that can result in the salvation of their souls.

Matt.7
[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

The Diary of Saint Faustina:

After the confession, I wondered how the
confessor knew that God had told me to meditate about Jonah; surely I myself had not
told him. Then I heard these words: When the priest acts in My place, he does not
act of himself, but I act through him. His wishes are Mine. I can see how Jesus
defends His representatives. He himself enters into their actions.

In this dark time it is better to pray for mercy than to judge. And. As Our Lady says we should pray for Our Shephards.

Assuming that we are not being presumptuous that we are any better than anyone else we could try praying:

"O Blood and Water, which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus, as a fount of mercy for us, I trust in You (Diary 84)."

Then you've just convicted St. Paul of being a heretic for his writings in the Bible, and leading us away from Christ.

No, I didn’t. It is you who have applied the word ‘heretic’ to Paul.

Shunning them is being merciful to them. They don't need to be circulating with us. For their stain, the thing they need most is to be alone in the desert, with no distractions, away from the occasion of sin to which they succumbed, giving them the opportunity to self-reflect on what they've done, to truly repent, and to re-connect themselves with the Savior they so glibly abandoned.

Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax-collector. The Pharisee stood there and said this prayer to himself. “I thank you, God, that I am not grasping, unjust, adulterous, like the rest of mankind, and particularly I am not like this tax collector here. I fast twice a week, I pay tithes on all I get.” The tax collector stood some distance away, not daring even to raise his eyes to heaven; but he beat his breaet and said, “God be merciful to me a sinner.” This man, I tell you, went home again at rights with God; the other did not. For everyone who exahlts himself will be humbled, but the man who humbles himself will be exalted.
Luke 18 : 10-14

Some more quotes from The Diary of Saint Faustina:

Every time you go to confession, immerse yourself entirely
in My mercy, with great trust, so that I may pour the bounty of My grace upon your
soul. When you approach the confessional, know this, that I Myself am waiting there
for you. I am only hidden by the priest, but I Myself act in your soul. Here the misery
of the soul meets the God of mercy. Tell souls that from this fount of mercy (7) souls
draw graces solely with the vessel of trust. If their trust is great, there is no limit to My
generosity. The torrents of grace inundate humble souls. The proud remain always in
poverty and misery, because My grace turns away from them to humble souls.

1725 Today, the Lord has been teaching me, once again, how I am to approach the Sacrament of
Penance: My daughter, just as you prepare in My presence, so also you make your
confession before Me. The person of the priest is, for Me, only a screen. Never
analyze what sort of a (89) priest it is that I am making use of; open your soul in
confession as you would to Me, and I will fill it with My light.

Look it all boiles down to this anyone convicted of these sex abuse cases should be kicked out and anyone that knows
that they done it and didn't do anything about it they are as bad.Bluecross if a priest done it to your grandson or grandaughter would you say it was fine just like the Question you asked Maryh what would you do
You can love the sinner but not the sin look at Matthew 18:6 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea God Bless you all
love Irish M

Bluecross if a priest done it to your grandson or grandaughter would you say it was fine just like the Question you asked Maryh what would you do...

Of course, it wouldn’t be “just fine” and certainly not for the victim and their family. But be it a priest or anyone else I would condemn the sin but not the sinner. The challenge we all face is to find forgiveness in our heart for those who sin against us. It’s the challenge I have had to deal with throughout my life and still do.

Jesus taught his disciples how to pray, and so us, for a reason, for our benefit. He taught us to ask our Father in heaven to forgive our trespasses as we forgive others who trespass against us. Why would he teach us this if it was not necessary?

You probably know already that most child abuse (not just sexual) happens within families. Then, of course, there is the problem of self abuse which takes many forms, but especially through addictions.

Today, there was a report published in the UK saying that a fifth of 14-year-old girls self harm.

A survey of 11,000 children found 22% of the girls and 9% of the boys said they had hurt themselves on purpose in the year prior to the questionnaire. Rates of self-harm were worst (46%) among those who were attracted to people of the same or both genders.

So it seems to me there are far greater dangers in the world to young people than ‘predator’ priests. It is these dangers that would cause me to have more concern about my grandchildren. My stock phrase with my kids and grandkids is “be careful”, but it generally falls on deaf ears.

I consecrate my immediate and extended family to the Two Hearts every day. I name each one of them, and if I know of any that has a particular need, then I petition Jesus and Mary to assist the child or adult. It’s about all I can do at my stage in life, pray for the needs of others and for continuing grace to forgive.

As for tying millstones around people’s necks, better we leave this to the Lord than take on the job ourselves.

"The Vicar of my Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to large persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightful crisis."

"The true faith to the Lord having been forgotten, each individual will want to be on his own and be superior to people of same identity, they will abolish civil rights as well as ecclesiastical, all order and all justice would be trampled underfoot and only homicides, hate, jealousy, lies and dissension would be seen without love for country or family."

"All the civil governments will have one and the same plan, which will be to abolish and do away with every religious principal to make way for materialism, atheism, spiritualism and vice of all kinds."

These words were attributed to Our Lady in 1846.

Source: http://www.thepopeinred.com/secret.htm

Thanks Merlorrich for that and that is what is happening in nearly every country
it is all coming true
God Bless you all
love Irish M
Ps I think we would need to pray a bit more God help mankind we don't know what is in front of us

irish m wrote: we don't know what is in front of us

Oh but we do my friend. That's what the messages of Medjugorje are all about!

Our Lady has been tirelessly warning us for centuries in every one of Her apparition events, and telling us what is in store for us.

The question is, "Is mankind listening?"

oh I know what our lady has said but as you said dose the rest of mankind I don't think so for what is going on in this world today not too many people care or even believe there's a God and many catholic are catholic by name
so when this all comes as our lady said they will pray for me to intercede
All we can do is pray
God Bless you all
love Irish M
Ps you only have to look at Ireland today to see what is happening here jesus have mercy on us Amen

I believe The Triumph of Our Lady has begun!

From Denis Nolan:

Dear Apostles of Our Lady:

With all we're witnessing today (including the startling things coming to light about the Church) let's remember that ten months ago Medjugorje visionary Marija Pavlovic Lunetti told us after Our Lady's apparition to her in Vienna's St. Stephens Cathedral: "I believe that now, with this year, begins, as Our Lady said, the Triumph of her Immaculate heart!"

It's terrible news! It's wonderful news! And it's unfolding so fast!

"Everything around you is passing and everything is falling apart, only the glory of God remains!" (9/2/11)

Today God has placed everything into Mary's hands. She's telling us that Heaven is with us, is fighting for us, and:

"not to lose hope, and for your gaze and heart to always be directed towards Heaven and eternity. In this way, you will be open to God and to His plans." (12/25/16)


Will it be easy? Pretty? Messy?, yes it will be messy, painful, hard going. The church will go through it's Calvary{according to the CCC} The children of Medjugorje screamed and cried and begged for mercy when shown the secrets. The children at Garabandal also screamed and cried when shown the future. All that was done in darkness is being brought to light by the Woman Clothed With the Sun. Fr. Altier{he has a wonderful series going on EWTN now}has given a good sermon on this. In it he likens it to a mother who has told her children over and over again to clean your room. The children don't do it and so mother gets garbage bags and goes and cleans the room. Our Mother is the Immaculata, when she is done,everything will be immaculate. Persecutions? Most likely. But Our Blessed Mother has been training us, her foot soldiers for a long time. Are our lamps filled with oil like the wise virgins? Hopefully! Pray, pray, pray, let us keep our lamps filled with oil. Let's just keep close to Jesus Christ and His bride the Church and not desert Him or the Church in her passion. Here's the link to an audio of Fr. Altier's sermon:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/spm-straph-par ... 33/208.mp3

Denis Nolan's words in bold

How things really go: (fictional)

Hello your Holiness Francis, good morning. Congratulations that you were elected pope last week. Thank you don Quiñones (fictional name), answers Francis. However please thank God and pray for the church and for me (deep sigh) that He can give me the strength to lead the church. After a few moments of silence while don Quiñones slowly opens the curtains and the heavy wooden panels of the dorm, he seems to hesitate in the choice of words..... But then finally he says: Of course we will pray for you, your Holiness, and know that the whole world will pray for you during every mass... Then another long moment of silence fills the room. A silence so thick that it is as if it can be cut with a knife into time slices. A silence that can only be caused by certain psychological tension.....A silence that makes susceptible people feel uncomfortable. Francis had already felt that there seems to be something really bothering the friendly old man in his room. And then, just when Francis wanted to open his mouth to ask, Quiñones breaks the silence... Your Holiness? Francis decides to look slightly surprised and to briefly listen to this man.... What is on your mind? Francis responds... Then Quiñones started to talk with more confidence: Listen your Holiness, I am just a humble brother picked from the Washington DC area to serve here for some years and tomorrow is my last day. But what I want to say to you is that I think there is some very very big injustice going on that I know of, and maybe I thought you should know about it and maybe you can even help and make this crooked straight. Well says the freshly chosen pope smiling, tell me my brother, being pope doesn't mean I don't have a duty to fulfill as a christian and to listen to your sorrows. So please my son, have trust in God. Francis slowly takes his stole, kisses it and hangs it around his neck. He makes the sign of the cross.
Well says Quiñones, talking a bit agitated and at a fast pace, there are some very jealous bishops.... ssst t.t. interrupts Francis, you are now in the presence of the Lord. Quiñones reverently makes the sign of the cross as he kneels in front of Francis. Sorry sir, he says, for I have sinned. Continue my son responds Francis. What I was saying Quiñones continues now at a much slower pace, is that in my eyes there are some very jealous bishops and clerics that want to place our most revered Cardinal McCarick in a dark light. If you know what he has done for our church. They have even come so far as to..., and I really really don't know how, to falsely accuse him of the worst things that you can imagine. And it even got all the way into the hands of our most holy pope Benedict xiv. If you look at it, how is it possible to do all these good things for the church, while doing all those....bad things. Bad things they accuse him of at the same time? Can you imagine? For so many years, without those terrible things being noticed? He has always been so kind for me, and he is always so kind for everybody. And now they have secretly pushed sanctions against him. But I can tell you. He is innocent... innocent as myself. And I,.. I am just a humble priest.
Francis stares in the distance. Sanctions you say? And he is innocent? ... Yes your Holiness. Just look at the things he has done for the church. How he is loved by the people... And now they want to ... to crucify him. Francis keeps looking pensive into the distance. How do I despise injustice he mumbles to himself. Then Francis recovers suddenly saying: "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins. Through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace. And I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.... and after some moments of peaceful silence he pleads to Quiñones that he will look into the issue. The cleric stands up as fast as his old age allows him to and thanks the pope abundantly. Then he tidies up the desk and removes some dossiers that had been placed there by another cleric the day before and swiftly leaves the room. Francis was never to see him again.