[irish m]

I have just read when the pope was coming back from his lastest trip he was quoted in saying to a news paper reporter that the catholic faith could split is this fake news or not and if so who do we follow the pope or what I would like to hear from you all its not an easy one for the pope has come out with somethings that don't add up to me anyway
God Bless you all
love Irish M

[bluecross]

Best read the Pope’s comments in context. The official transcription is at this link:

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news ... -text.html

[irish m]

will do blue cross thanks
God Bless you irish m

[irish m]

Read it but can't make any sense of it to me he is confusing the faithful in what he says
God Bless you
Love Irish m

[ActionReq]

Maybe one could argue that it would be
so comforting if he might use the word
"Jesus" just a little more often.

[irish m]

I have watched The Remnant Newspaper .com take a look at it and tell me what you think I am no good at putting up the sites
don't know how but go into it and look at video about pope on the trip back home from Africa
God Bless you all love Irish M

[irish m]

I have watched The Remnant Newspaper .com take a look at it and tell me what you think I am no good at putting up the sites
don't know how but go into it and look at video about the pope on the trip back home from Africa
God Bless you all love Irish M

[irish m]

I have watched The Remnant Newspaper .com take a look at it and tell me what you think I am no good at putting up the sites
don't know how but go into it and look at video about the pope on the trip back home from Africa
God Bless you all love Irish M


Ps let me know what you think

[irish m]

Pope Francis invites religious political leaders to sign Global pact for new humanist
and as someone said For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and fortis his soul?"it's clear
that pope francis is more concerned about things of this world than helping souls reach Heaven
God Bless you all love Irish M

sp pray that God intervenes

[Maryh]

Yeah, I had a peek at that site you mentioned Irish M and the comments are similar to a lot of other websites where people
are all totally against the pope.
Its a real rabbit hole, After i read them i feel like nothing and nobody is to be trusted.

There is a whole catalogue of issues now that people want answers to and explanations for and so many people are so insulted too, as they feel castigated for being 'rigid' when in the grand scheme of things there are surely worse sins?
Shouldn't we just forgive the rigid folk and not make it an issue? Is it even a sin to be rigid?
Anyway; it's making people revert to the traditional masses in their droves because they are looking for certainty.
Also, i genuinely think some people cannot help the way they are, Its just their personality or temperament.

Some people have bull dog personalities but have hearts of gold.
I was reading in Ezekiel,
where it says: Then God said, "Mortal man, go to the people of Israel and say to them whatever i tell you to say.
........But none of the people of Israel will be willing to listen to me. All of them are stubborn and defiant. Now i will make you as stubborn and as tough as they are. i will make you as firm as a rock, as hard as a diamond; don't be afraid of those rebels"......the power of the Lord came on me with great force, and as his spirit carried me off, i felt bitter and angry."

This all sounds pretty rigid and unpleasant to me but yet it was all meant for God's purpose.
Appearances can be really deceptive.
Its not looking good. The spiritual battle is raging.
Only thing we can do is pray for wisdom and discernment i suppose and hope things can be worked out or
made as clear as possible,,,for better or worse.

I'm finding the whole arena of politics increasing repulsive anyway on so many levels. Too many cute hoors.
I'm sure you understand as a fellow Irish person Irish M...

[ActionReq]

Bringing up the remnant is like saying
ultra orthodox or rightwing. It will only
cause resistance in most Catholics.
On the other hand.
Pope Francis says dialogue, but he
doesn't listen. He only listens to the
ones who are all for him. The pope
says that his critics need therapy.
That is food for schism. Why would
a pope say that? If he would use
the word Jesus more often, then
he would make me feel we are of the
same religion, but he doesn't.
What he thinks (I think) is that he
acts Jesus and does politics.
Think that over, maybe he is acting
your Jesus and that might comfort you.
Unfortunately, he is not acting my Jesus.
Francis has a clear vision and a mission.
Normally that is good. However by
now it is clear that this vision is
indeed unmistakenly liberation
theology. Just read all about it and
decide if you like it or not. Try to
avoid reading interpretations and
judgemental comments about
liberation theology, because there
are more critics than followers of
this theology. The word communism
is heavily laden and they use this
word to bias your thinking away
from it.
Let's hope all this fits God's plan.
I hope God is just creating some
contrast in this world.

[bluecross]

I guess some people just don’t like to be corrected. They know better. It all stems from the sin of pride – and it was pride that made angels fall from Heaven.

Then there are those who insist on living by the rulebook, the law, and applying it to others, yet break the rules themselves. Jesus called these people hypocrites.

Moses, chosen to lead the Israelites out of Egypt, wasn’t perfect. He had blood on his hands and tried to hide his muderous sin. Yet God chose him. The people didn’t always listen and complained against him (and therefore God). Their suffering was his fault, down to him. God bailed Moses out with a set of rules for the people to follow, but that was too much for some, so they started worshiping an idol fashioned from their own hands, a God who couldn’t talk back to them. Now the people could make up their own rules and instead tell God and his chosen one what THEY should be doing instead. It’s been this way ever since. Always will be; for every soul created is fresh meat for Satan and his team of tempters who try to trap the people with lies and confusion, challenging authority, challenging the Pope. Protesting.

So the cycle begins again, protest against the Church and the Pope. Let’s start a new Church, let’s get rid of this Pope and vote in another, let’s shift this parish priest out with our complaints and see how the next one works out. If he’s no better, complain again. Better still, start another church again. Keep protesting, keep fragmenting and splintering into all kinds of protest groups and new churches with new leaders, setting new rules and standards – our rules, our standards. We don’t need to listen to intolerable language. We can move away, stop following Jesus, like the disciples who couldn’t get their heads or hearts around the truth of eating his body. Busy people who had better things to do than sit at the feet of Jesus and listen to the truth. That takes time and patience and leaves less time for complaining and protesting.

Pray for the Pope, his needs and intentions. He has been chosen. And if anyone out here finds that difficult to do, then listen to our Blessed Mother, especially when she asks, “Will you do it for me?”

But we shouldn’t make it a selfish prayer by asking Our Lady for the Pope to change or to fit in with our expectations. Let God’s will be done, which isn’t always what we may perceive to be His will. “Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.”

[Maryh]

It must be some kind of 'clericalism' back lash or hangover that is occurring maybe? People may have grown up with these ideas about what those in authority should be like or should not do?

Clericalism arises from an elitist and exclusivist vision of vocation, that interprets the ministry received as a power to be exercised rather than as a free and generous service to be given. This leads us to believe that we belong to a group that has all the answers and no longer needs to listen or learn anything. Clericalism is a perversion and is the root of many evils in the Church: we must humbly ask forgiveness for this and above all create the conditions so that it is not repeated.

— Pope Francis’ Address to the Synod Fathers at Opening of Synod2018 on Young People, the Faith and Vocational Discernment[4]

Clericalism and canon law
In his 1520 Treatise on the New Testament, Martin Luther argued that clericalism was a result of canon law:[10]

Yea, the priests and the monks are deadly enemies, wrangling about their self-conceived ways and methods like fools and madmen, not only to the hindrance, but to the very destruction of Christian love and unity. Each one clings to his sect and despises the others; and they regard the lay-men as though they were no Christians. This lamentable condition is only a result of the laws.

People look to the Pope for 'righteousness' and it's not going well, Conundrums are happening instead....lots of them.

No 'righteousness' No thank you!

"All our righteousness is like filthy rags", Isaiah 64:4-9.

Baulking at 'authority' can come about for all kinds of reasons too,
What if my priest, bishop and pope are all not seeing eye to eye and not in agreement? This is the problem people are finding themselves in with the hierarchical situation, folk can feel torn in two..or three even. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

Even recently i read about the local bishop who feels there is no truth in the apparitions in Medjugorje? So If his sheep don't listen to him are they resisting correction, being prideful and making up their own rules? There are no easy answers as far as i can see. They may have had a conversion in Medjugorje!

I do pray for the pope and all those in authority; it's a huge responsibility to lead others to salvation.

We all will have to give an account of ourselves and are answerable to God and there will be no place to hide.
Just the truth of who we are.

[ActionReq]

My Jesus says:
And in those days you will search
for mercy, shouting: Mercy! Mercy!
And there will be no mercy.
Until you start looking for justice,
and then when you apply justice
to your self, and mercy to others,
then suddenly Mercy Himself will
find you.
So that is my Jesus, compatible
with prehistoric catholicism.
Then they took my Jesus away,
and they said: You are no longer
Catholic, unless you do as we do,
and think as we think.
That was Vatican II.
Now they do that same trick
again. I became a Catholic
because I like that way, the real
artworks, the high schooled altisonant
religious music that you need to study
6+ years to get it right, the repentance
and the confession.
Did you know that confession
is old school? It will be removed.
Where I live, there is no confession.
if I want to confess, I must call and
make an appointment in a church
12 miles from here, or go to
Amsterdam on a Saturday afternoon
to find out that today there is no
confession. Come back next week.
The wooden inclination pews are all
being changed with comfortable
chairs because on your knees is
too old-school, and God is good, so
he surely doesn't want you on your
knees or he doesn't want you to
confess. He wants you to be
comfortable. The popular priest here
breaks the bread during the
consecration. He invites everybody
to recite the consecration with him.
He uses often completely different
words to consecrate. The unpopular
priest (an imported italian) has not
so much people during mass.
This is where we go to.
Now my question:
Is the salvative value the same as it
was before?
Is it less?
Or is it more?
And
Should I complain, or acquiesce?

[irish m]

Thanks everyone for there answers but as I say it a hard one for me anyway it is all hard to understand
I am only saying if the pope said no confessions you don't need to go to mass pray at home do we do this or what
thank everyone again yes Maryh ( TOO MANY CUTE HOORS) like it ActionReq sorry to hear that what you have to do to
get confessions Thank Bluecross for your answer but as I say it's hard
to know what to do
But I pray for the pope every day and ask God and our Blessed Mother to guide me
God Bless you all love from a confused irish m
ps Christ will not abandon the church God Bless

[bluecross]

I am only saying if the pope said no confessions you don't need to go to mass pray at home do we do this or what

I’m sure you already know in heart and conscience the answer to your question.

And yes, life can be hard and challenging, but if you follow Jesus then there are times when you are invited to carry his cross (as Simon was). And if you don’t follow Jesus then rest assured he is following you and helping to carry your cross.

[ActionReq]

It looks we are forced to a schism path:

Cardinal Raymond Burke and Bishop Athanasius Schneider have issued a statement (September 24):
No honest person can anymore deny the almost general doctrinal confusion which is reigning in the life of the Church in our days.

And they call it fidelity to the pope,
while they criticize every bit if him.
So they aim at changing the pope.
So that the pope becomes according
to their expectations.

What is said here is that
when you agree with one
party, I presume he means
"if you are with the pope" or
"If you are the pope"
then you are not honest
with yourself and in denial.

How to solve?

[bluecross]

How to solve?

Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Maybe the question the dissenters and the critics should ask themselves is, “How in heaven will I get on with the Pope when I can’t do so on earth?”

Do debates continue in Paradise?

And just how will Brexit be solved? Seemingly never to everyone’s satisfaction.

Such is the way of the world. One person’s satisfaction can mean another person’s misery.

[ActionReq]

Such is the way of the world. One person’s satisfaction can mean another person’s misery.

You said it all.
In order to avoid misery,
schism is the solution.
If there is no way to
create different currents
inside the church.
When the leaders are
fixed on saying that
there is only one way and
that way is Christ. Jesus
himself said that. And
then Christ is as 'we' say it is.
Why is it that e.g Calvinism
Vatican-II-inism and
pre-Vatican-II-inism
can't be a subdivision
of a general Church?
Like the UN structure.
The answer is that inside
the subdivision you must
handle strict rules and
create a definition of
what is heresy for oneself
because having a true
identity is so important
for the unity of an entity.
And that is where I would
criticize the current admin
of the catholic church.
If you change the id of
the church too quickly
there will be schism.
The pope said that he
is not afraid of schism,
because he wants to
change swiftly, but he
knows it will cost some
schisms. He thinks
that without change
the church of Rome
will disappear.
He might be right.

[bluecross]

Probably better to focus on what unites than what divides.

God heals and restores the wounds and divisions created by evil and misunderstandings.

In her latest message Our Lady invites us all to unite in our joys and sorrows through the mysteries of the Rosary and so allow the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts, whatever our perceived differences and understanding.

Wisdom and Understanding are two beautiful gifts to pray for and receive.

[Maryh]

When the leaders are
fixed on saying that
there is only one way and
that way is Christ. Jesus
himself said that. And
then Christ is as 'we' say it is.

This reminds me of something i read recently:

[bluecross]

For some, sorry is the hardest word to say, unless they are demanding it from others.

Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.

Keep it simple and sincere.

[Maryh]

For some, sorry is the hardest word to say, unless they are demanding it from others.

Some folk will never admit they are wrong or say sorry because that requires humility. In fact, in my experience, these type
would try to make others take responsibility and the blame for 'their' sins. Its the height of arrogance, pride and selfishness and really crooked.
Its a hard one.....i can't see how reconciliation is possible under these conditions.
I think this is why some families fall out with each other and don't speak for years.

I wish there was just as many sermons for people to do right by others and admit their wrong-doings to those they have harmed or offended as there are sermons on forgiveness. Its badly needed.

Swanning off to confessions can be used as a 'cheap grace' or a 'get out of jail' card for some, they emerge feeling 'absolved', free as a bird and almost invincible.
Often they still have no intentions of admitting their guilt or in making amends to the person
they have harmed. What is 'holy' can be used for nefarious purposes too.

Keep it simple and sincere.

Some folk genuinely are not sorry; they are only sorry if they get caught.
They will only ever see the plank in their neighbours eye.
Its a sickness.
Forgiveness and mercy is so much easier if someone is genuinely sorry.

[bluecross]

Swanning off to confessions can be used as a 'cheap grace' or a 'get out of jail' card for some, they emerge feeling 'absolved', free as a bird and almost invincible.

Do you go to confesssion?

[Maryh]

Maybe...why do you ask?