Chat with other believers about Medjugorje.

Moderators: TimHaley, MedjAdmin, Management

User avatar
By bluecross
#231831
Maybe...why do you ask?
Or maybe not?

Your comment about “swanning off to confession” prompted the question.
.
Swanning off to confessions can be used as a 'cheap grace' or a 'get out of jail' card for some, they emerge feeling 'absolved', free as a bird and almost invincible.
User avatar
By Maryh
#231832
Well I do go to the confessional from time to time if you must know Bluecross... :lol:
But I don't 'swan' off nor do i think the grace available there came cheaply.

If you describe someone as swanning around or swanning off, you mean that they go and have fun, rather than working or taking care of their responsibilities.
[British, informal]

I don't think the confessional should be used for just emotional relief, it makes some folk come out feeling as though
they are the custodians of the holy spirit and that they are wearing an invincible cloak that removes them of all responsibility for their actions. It happens!
'Using' the sacrament of confession and that which is holy was the point i was trying to make without getting overly personal.

+Disclaimer: God loves those who swan off to confession and who 'go' to confessions unconditionally. We are ALL sinners.
User avatar
By bluecross
#231833
Well I do go to the confessional from time to time if you must know Bluecross...
Time to time... Is that every week, or every month or even every year?

I find it puzzling that you want to measure yourself against others when it comes to confession.

Is the merciful grace you receive by going to confession greater than what the “swanners” receive.

Should any of us be the judge of God’s grace given to others?

“I tell you, there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one repentant sinner, than over ninety-nine virtuous men who have no need of repentance.” (Luke 15 - The Three parables of God’s Mercy)
User avatar
By Maryh
#231834
bluecross wrote:I find it puzzling that you want to measure yourself against others when it comes to confession.
I think your puzzled because this is an incorrect assumption you are making regarding my motives Bluecross.
bluecross wrote:Should any of us be the judge of God’s grace given to others?
I'm not judging God's grace. I am judging the misuse of God's grace.
bluecross wrote:Time to time... Is that every week, or every month or even every year?
?
Am i under arrest? :shock:
User avatar
By Maryh
#231837
bluecross wrote:Should I suppose that you never misuse God’s grace and therefore have no need to confess?
Well should you decide to suppose this; this is entirely up to you!
bluecross wrote:Why are you reluctant to say if you go to confession – yet are able to judge the misuse of God's grace in others?
I'm reluctant to get personal with you BC.

I judge people misusing the things of God for nefarious purposes Yes. I've experienced it first hand and its a very destructive witness to the faith.
My conscience is clear.

Good nite..Hope you have a peaceful nights sleep!
User avatar
By Maryh
#231839
He can swan in with his left wing or with his right wing or he can swivel in in a centre-left alignment. I have no problem with it. :lol:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... lity-75667
The Church today needs a profound conversion in this area,” the pope said.

“Once a Jesuit, a great Jesuit, told me to be careful in giving absolution, because the most serious sins are those that are more angelical: pride, arrogance, dominion… And the least serious are those that are less angelical, such as greed and lust,” he explained.
I agree with the Pope here with regards to being careful in giving absolution because whether one may swan in to the confessional; it's not a good idea if a person also 'swans' out of it thinking they are entirely unshackled from
serious sins. No.
The abuse crisis was a sin of 'dominion' more than it was a sin of 'lust' because
the motivation for assault is often to have power and control over others; its not a crime of passion.

Of course i want people to experience the love and mercy of God and feel freedom and that their sin has been removed as far as east is from the west.

Care is needed when giving absolution...ding ding ding.... :idea:
Padro Pio turfed folk out of the confessional without absolution when he seen fit.
I wouldn't like this if it happened to me, but that would soon stop any 'swanning' in its tracks.
User avatar
By Maryh
#231840
Think I've worked out the problem now when it comes to the criticism the Pope gets.

From what I've read, Pope Francis identifies 'rigidity' as a problem mostly linked with clericalism and he is very critical of it and uses quite a lot of colourful language in order to get his message across.
Correct me if i am wrong.
People are conflating the problem of 'rigidity' as applying also to other conditions and people as a result.

'Rigidity' has become a dirty word but it is being taken out of the context from the problem the pope is trying to identify.
For example:
Rigidity when keeping the tradition of the church?! rigidity when it comes to doctrine?! and church laws?! and everything under the sun and people are identifying themselves as rigid and are getting insulted as a result too. All of these is being levelled at the pope in a 'gunny sacking' kind of way.
There is no way the pope can please all of the people, all of the time.

Clericalism IS repulsive; It separates people, it makes some people want to put others onto impossible pedestals and the disappointment that results then when their ideas of 'righteousness' is not in evidence.
Its not fair to the cleric or to the people he is trying to lead.
Also, i imagine it makes communication almost impossible as one person is being designated as the ultimate authority, so it could be 'my way or the high way' and case closed if there is ever a difference of opinion or a need to resolve an issue.

The Pope is then coming under 'Ad Hominem' attacks as they do not trust his empirical evidence when it comes to 'rigidity' and the serious problems it represents.

Ad hominem; a big shiny new word i learned recently. :wink:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

That's just my two cents anyway and probably my final say for quite some time.
User avatar
By maryannlucy
#231842
I find myself not knowing what to do about where to attend Mass in the future. If my priests start dating and getting married, or if women deacons start to appear, I seriously do not know where my family and I will attend Mass. I do not know Latin and although I agree a Latin Mass is very holy, I am not drawn to finding one to attend. Maryh, I admire how charitably you responded to the intrusive questions about the sacrament of confession. I know I would not have handled that so graciously. I think that Catholics have every right to wonder why the Pontiff is making so many drastic changes. The fear of offending the Lord and punishment cause me to worry about the state of the Church.
User avatar
By Prodigals
#231843
kim52 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:30 am I'm over here in the flock of confused sheep.
Francis has always been in the habit of making off-the-cuff statements about various matters of Catholic faith and morality. These ambiguous comments hint at his possible willingness to change a particular Church teaching, which leave the faithful to struggle with questions about the validity of established dogma. The press gleefully jumps on these statements as evidence that there is finally a pope who is open to changing everything about the Church.

Can any pope change that which has always been believed by all Catholics everywhere?

Pope Blessed Pius IX, who led our Church for over 30 years, had something profound to say about that. He said the Holy Spirit was not given to the successors of St. Peter so that they may disclose new doctrine. He said the Holy Spirit is given to the popes so that they might faithfully guard both the revelation transmitted through the apostles and the deposit of faith. He said that the Church's sacred dogmas must be perpetually maintained, and that there must never be a recession from that under the pretext of a "deeper understanding".

What he was saying is that it isn't within any pope's authority to change what is revealed in sacred scripture, or the Holy Tradition as passed down to us from the Apostles. Attempts to do so will surely result in confusion among the faithful.
User avatar
By ActionReq
#231844
Can any pope change that which has always been believed by all Catholics everywhere?
Jesus wrote:You are Peter and on this rock, I will build My church.
Francis wrote:We must rebuild the Church
The Church must convert
One conclusion could be:
They do not believe that this
what Jesus has built, is ok
because they are eager to
change even what Jesus said
in the lord's prayer, because
as the pope says:
francis sic wrote:“It is not a good
translation
because
it speaks
of a God who
induces
temptation,”
And Luke confirms
Matthew on what is
actually said in the
textus receptus.
Reminds me of a text
from revelation.
For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,
and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'
he saith -- who is testifying these things -- `Yes, I come quickly!' Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!
User avatar
By irish m
#231845
Maryh you got it right on the confessional your on fire your some craic when you start good answer and for padro pio he told a man in confession the man asked him is there hell he said to him you will know when you get there God Bless you all
Love Irish m ps love the craic :D :) :D :D
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