Medjugorje Forum

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:39 am 
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A friend recently introduced me to the spirituality of Medjugorje and told me that she prays for my conversion.

I was confused. I attend Mass 4-5 days a week. I go to Confession monthly. I even say the rosary occasionally. So when she told me that she was praying for my conversion, I didn't know what she meant. After all, I'm already a Roman Catholic.

Does anyone here know what she was talking about? Am I supposed to convert to Medjugorje, or something?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:57 am 
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Mary

You sound so cute! :D

One's conversion is a lifetime process...it is not a one time thing. It is saying "yes" to Jesus every day. Our faith is often tested during those dark moments when all seems lost or things seem to be going against us. This is how it must be when one follows Jesus completely. After all, He went through it too....and all because He loved us with a love that we will never understand. His love is forever!

Pippy :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:33 pm 
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Hi Mary, If you truly have Jesus in your heart and in your soul, it is just my humble opinion that you do not have to follow Medjugorje....But it sure couldn`t hurt :D

Bless, Sharon


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:19 pm 
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Maryb, I think Pippy explained it best. Conversion is an on-going life long thing that brings you closer and closer to Jesus. There is no special "Medjugorje conversion." Conversion is one of the main messages of the Medjugorje. Conversion, Pennance, Prayer, Fasting, and reading the Bible.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:25 pm 
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When people talk about conversion with regards to Medjugorje, I always look at it as a kind of conversion to deep spirituality. A conversion from lip-service to service with the heart. A conversion from going through the motions to really living with God through the sacraments. A conversion to living the Medjugorje message of prayer (rosary every day) fasting (wednesdays and Fridays), monthly confession, Eucharist as often as possible.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:25 pm 
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By the way, welcome to the forum 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:01 pm 
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Hi MaryB,

You can never stop growing closer to God who is infinite.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:57 am 
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Thank you.

It bothers me when Medjugorje Catholics question the Catholicity of non-Medjugorje Catholics because belief in Medjugorje is not in the Deposit of Faith. It is not required for salvation.

I am a Montfortian. The Handbook of Montfortian Spirituality is a thousand pages long, and I get plenty of spiritual food from it. I also am doing the Our Father's Plan bible study of Hahn and Cavin, and am taking two Catholic Ed classes at my church: one on Apologetics, and another on the Book of Acts. I'm also studying Father Hardon's Marian Catechist Courses. Our parish is gearing up for the "new evangelization." I want to be a part of it.

I used to follow apparitions. I found them to be a distraction from my quest of KNOWING my faith, that is, the true teachings of the Church. Ever since I ceased following apparitions (on the internet) I have grown spiritually. Lately, I have become hyper-skeptical of messages from unapproved or yet-to-be approved mystics or visionaries. I will wait for the Church to rule on Medjugorje. She hasn't yet ruled favorably.

I've never been to Medjugorje. I've never visited any Marian Shrine. I have no devotion to Medjugorje, yet, I've had several interior visions and actual visions. I've seen Jesus's face in the Eucharist several times. I've had 2 ecstacies. I contemplate these things in my heart.

I'm even skeptical of my own mystical experiences--and so much more for others. I follow the advice of St. John of the Cross, who admitted that he couldn't discern the demonic experiences from the heavenly ones. As such, he asked God for the experiences to stop.

Mine stopped all on their own. In an odd way -- I find this to be a relief -- yet at the same time I miss the consolations. I am now in a period of deep aridity, which is normal in the course of the Interior Life. In fact, I offer up my suffering in this state as a mortification for the salvation of souls. It is hard having all the lights turned off after having such an abundance of consolations. Were I weak in faith, I'd probably lose it completely had I experienced this length and level of aridity earlier. I see this as my spiritual Winter.

So ... non-Medjugorje Catholics can have deep mystical experiences, too. That was why I was taken aback when I was told others were praying for my conversion. I already have a great HUNGER for knowing my Beloved --- and my way of knowing Him is knowing His Church and her Dogmatic Teachings.

And when my Springtime comes, I hope to lead a vast multitude to Jesus through Mary. (I've been asked to teach a couse in St. Louis De Montfort's True Devotion to Mary spirituality. I've deferred this until I better know my faith. I told them: give me a year or two).

You all seem like nice people, so I'm hoping you won't attack me if I ask you a few questions.

Just for the sake of CIVIL discussion, WHAT IF the Church were to rule "constat-de-non de supernaturalitate" with regards to the apparition of Medjugorje? (This means, "It is certain that nothing supernatural is occurring here."). If that were to happen, would you leave the Church?

I've actually come across people who would. This only feeds my skepticism of this apparition. What would you do?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:26 pm 
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Hi and welcome.

I have two things to say.

First, I understand the idea of conversion when applied to Medjugorje to be only for those who only do lip service, not for people who are deep in their faith, therefore I would disagree with those praying for your conversion. The idea isn't that Medjugorje is essential to be a Catholic, the idea is that being fully Catholic is essential to being Catholic. In other words, whether or not you believed in Medjugorje, you ought to be praying for the full conversion of those who only give lip service.

Second, no I wouldn't leave the Church if the Vatican decided that Medj was not a site of true apparitions. I think I speak for all Medjugorje believers when I say that I am Catholic and Medj is something that helps me be more so. Medj does not take the place of any part of my faith. It would surely not be coming from God if that was the purpose of it. Those who follow Medj follow the Pope and the Church. If the Church says it isn't from God, then the Church is to be followed. End of story, in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:56 pm 
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Mary, thank you for sharing your story in more details. :D

If Medjuorje were ruled against...I would not leave our beautiful faith. :D It was not Medjugorje that opened my heart...it was Jesus Who did. :D

But Medjugorje is the last effort of Jesus giving His Blessed Mother the graces she needs in order to help turn this world around...isn't it a mother's loving touch that we always seem to turn to when hurt, scared, or upset?

Look around you, Mary, how many hurt, scared, or upset souls do you see?

Two books I would highly recommend for you at this time in your winter of the soul, would be the St Faustina's Diariy of Divine Mercy and a book about a little known saint named St. Gemma Galgani. You will find much comfort in these books, Mary.

Bless you!

Pippy :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:42 pm 
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I have been to Lourdes and Medjugorje. I went to Lourdes first and was very fulfilled with what I saw. Medjugorje was a pleasant bonus.

I have read alot of the negative reports on Medjugorje, and have accepted it on the basis of a rational examination of the fruits, the commercial set up, the people and the clergy there. This was following a visit there. I must write that I am no thelogian, so in saying that I was satisfied, I accept that it is only my opinion. That said I felt God working in me while there and believe not just on my observations of the physical setup there but also the spiritual sensations.

I was a Catholic before I went there. I did not receive a conversion, but instead a rewarding, insightful and peaceful opportunity for prayer.

I will continue to go to mass if the church rules against Medjugorje, and although it would be a disappointing result, I feel there is a sufficient amount of approved apparition sites for me to visit, along with the graves of the incorruptibles, Bethlehem, the Diary of Saint Faustina and of course the Bible in order to experience God. So if I would visit these if I wished to supplement my faith.

So my faith doesn't exist because of Medjugorje, It was not altered because of Medjugorje, but I was spiritually rewarded owing to my visit there. And I am glad I went.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:11 pm 
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If Medjugorje is ruled unfavorable to any degree, then how we react will tell what kind of disciple of Christ we truly are.

Listen....then obey.

I do believe in St. Faustina's Diariy, Jesus told her that it is obedience that pleases Him the most.

Let's just keep praying things work out according to God's plan.

Love, Pippy

P.S. Perhaps one of the secrets maybe a disapproving favoring of Medjugorje...I don't know.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:57 pm 
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opps :oops:


Last edited by Spera on Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:31 am 
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duplicate thread -- sorry!


Last edited by MaryB on Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:31 am 
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duplicate thread --- sorry --- got obsessed with the submit button. HA!


Last edited by MaryB on Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:34 am 
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duplicate thread


Last edited by MaryB on Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:36 am 
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Boy, you all are a tame crowd.

I do have St. Faustina's diary in my home library. I'll take a look at it when I have time. It is quite thick!


Thanks for your kind words.

Some of you have spoken about getting graces from an apparition. Remember that these are actual graces, not Sancifying Graces. Actual graces are transient helps to act, as opposed to Sancifying Grace, which is permanent. You can only get an increase of the Sanctifying Grace through the Sacraments, and not through contact with an apparition.

I mean to say: nothing is greater than the Sacraments. The heart of the Church is the Eucharist, and in receiving the Heart of the Church, you receive the Heart of Christ.

Anyway, I am relieved you wouldn't leave the Church if this were declared false.

I have another question: In light of Medjugorje, what do you believe about the Second Coming?

(I'm of the belief that were between 50 to 300 years away from the Parousia, based on approved Catholic prophecy, and based on the capability of man to extinct himself).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:57 pm 
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I think one of the visionaries said something about going to Mass to be better than seeing Our Lady.

I don't have an opinion on the second coming. No-one at Medj has said anything about it so as far as I'm concerned the two events are not linked.

But based on my own personal opinion, I have heard it said that with global warming we have already made ourselves extinct and the full effect of it will be in 50 + years time. I don't know if I believe this.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:19 am 
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Dear Mary B,

Ivan told me (and my group) that the point about conversion was for people who have not yet experienced God's Love, the love of God, throughout their whole being.

I was quite agitated during the apparitions, not at peace at all, but during Ivan's talk I was staring at a picture of the blessed Mother, and then I felt that love, and cried and cried. And thankfully, I was sitting in the very back, so nobody heard or saw, but Ivan, who spoke about that love AFTER it had happened to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:25 pm 
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Dear Mary B,

Thank you for the questions, they really made me think. I know I will doubt my faith a bit if the Church disapproves Medjugorje, yet I cannot deny my 'second' conversion I expereicned there - I realised I was a 'lukewarm' Catholic before May 6th 2006.

I understand how offended you feel that others say you need to be converted. I am happy that you are already doing what our Blessed Mother at Medjugorje is asking of us, still I hope you will open your heart to Medjugorje through prayer (maybe God has something extra specail for you from Medjugorje?) And please pray for us.

God Bless!
Jessica


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:18 pm 
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one on Apologetics, and another on the Book of Acts. I'm also studying Father Hardon's Marian Catechist Courses. Our parish is gearing up for the "new evangelization

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