[OnASpiritualJourney2]

In an August 1990 interview with Jalena, she said the following:

(Jalena is not one of the six visionaries, but she is one of the two locutionists in Medjugorje and hears the Blessed Mother speaking to her.)

The questions were asked by Janice T. Connell and are from her book, "The Visions of the Children."

Q. Is it really important to fast only on bread and water?

A. The Blessed Mother said that is the best way. But we have to do it with love or ir isn't worth anything.

Q. That is an interesting point. God doesn't want a world of hungry grouches, does He?

A. {Laughter} Our Blessed Mother tells us that everything has to come from our hearts with love. but we are not to use that as an excuse not to fast! {More laughter.}

Q. If you do not pray and fast, do you still see and hear the Blessed Mother?

A. No.

Q. That's very interesting. Is it the prayer and fasting that causes you to see and hear the Blessed Mother?

A. It is not the cause. Rather prayer and fasting are the means that permit a person to become aware of the heavenly reality that is all around us.

Q. If a person truly prays and seriously fasts will that person see Jesus, the Blessed Mother, and the angels as you do, and hear them?

A. Scripture tells us whoever seeks God finds Him.

Q. Is your answer yes?

A. Yes.

Wow.

I hope I'm okay in quoting from the book this short section. I'm enjoying so many parts of the book - especially the interviews - and highly recommend it.

[bluecross]

The point Jelena is making is being able to “see” with the heart.

As I understand, Jelena has never seen Our Lady in the way the six visionaries see her.

She is aware of Our Lady through inner locutions, that is she hears Our Lady speak to her but she does not see her in a visual sense, only through the eyes of her heart.

We can all hear Our Lady and Jesus speak if we listen with the ears of our heart. We do this when we “listen” to Scripture with the ears of our heart.

Fasting on bread and water is not a requirement to hear the Lord or Our Lady speak to us, but it does assist in opening our heart to listen.

Hail Mary...

[OnASpiritualJourney2]

I understand what you're saying Bluecross, but she does indeed hear the Blessed Mother differently than the majority of us. According to what was written, there are only two people in Medjugorje who are locutionists. She receives messages from the Blessed Mother and Jesus. Surely many there "hear" with their heart in the way that you mentioned.

I'm taking her words at face value, but I don't think that my prayer life, or fasting for that matter, will ever be at a level sufficient to have what she speaks of. I'm reminded of Padre Pio and his holiness and how he could converse with Heaven even from a young age.

[starbright]

That was really interesting, Spirit. I've not read that book. Is it worth reading? What is the best of what it has to offer a person?

[OnASpiritualJourney2]

Yes it is really interesting and I highly recommend it! The best of what I've gotten out of it is help in praying better. Of course I no sooner read something than I forget the great "advice" I got and go back to old ways, but it's another tool to help me grow in faith. I love reading about the early years of the apparitions and how they overcame so many hardships and yet persevered through it all. There's so much in it - I've been reading it pretty much piecemeal. I believe it's available in the Catholic store.

[starbright]

Thanks

[MedjAdmin]

This tidbit of an interview is a big help for me today... thank you for posting it!

[OnASpiritualJourney2]

Cool!

I've gotten so many helpful hints here. Aoise mentioned a while back that she eats naan, and I thought that was a great idea, but didn't know where to find it here. Trader Joe's has it in their frozen section in resealable bags. It heats up beautifully in the oven and has no yeast in it. Thanks Judy!

It also helps me to remember that I can break the fast at midnight - it helped to read that Mirjana does that sometimes too.

[Mags]

Thank you for posting this really helpful insight Spirit...

[starbright]

Spirit and Aoise, PM me for a naan recipe

[bluecross]

Yes, the locutionists did claim to audibly hear Our Lady’s voice.

But I wasn’t disputing this. I was trying to clarify the emphasis by JC that if we all fast and pray in the way Jelena does then we can also “hear” Jesus and Mary in the same way as Jelena.

The fact that Jelena no longer hears Our Lady in an audible way shows that this claim is not true. I would not imagine that it is because she is praying or fasting any less than she has done.

In the passage Spirit has quoted from “The Visions of the Children” Janice Connell asks six questions of Jelena. I think I read somewhere the author is a lawyer and you can see how she almost cross-examines Jelena to lead her to give a definite answer to one particular question.

To JC’s question: “If a person truly prays and seriously fasts will that person see Jesus, the Blessed Mother, and the angels as you do, and hear them?”, Jelena does not give a direct answer for which the question is intended. She gives a general but truthful answer.

JC does not settle for that. She wants a definite answer to her particular question, a simple yes or no, and so then attempts to put an affirmative answer into Jelena’s mouth: “Is your answer yes?”

Jelena answers yes and JC assumes she has the answer to her direct question, and so now we have a situation where we can think that if we seriously fast and truly pray, we will be able to see the Blessed Mother, Jesus and the angels just as Jelena once used to. Wrong.

Jelena cannot say that anyone will “hear” Jesus or Mary in the sense that she claims to audibly “hear” because her locution is dependent on Jesus and Mary. In other words she cannot “hear” in the way she does on demand, simply by fasting and prayer, just as the six visionaries cannot “see” Our Lady because they pray and fast. The locutions and apparitions are determined by Our Lady and not those chosen to receive.

But that doesn’t mean that Jelena has answered untruthfully. Her response to JC’s question can be considered in another way. Those who fast and pray will see the Blessed Virgin, Jesus and the angels, and be able to hear them, not in this life, but the next.

There is a danger in all of this that there will be some who may think they are not fasting or praying sufficiently or in the right way because they don’t hear or even see Jesus and Mary as Jelena once used to:

Spirit has related to this, saying: “...but I don't think that my prayer life, or fasting for that matter, will ever be at a level sufficient to have what she speaks of.”

What Jelena received with her inner locutions was a gift from God and not dependent on fasting or prayer. Our Lady once said when the visionaries asked her why they were chosen (implying that they were not holy enough), “I do not always choose the best.”

Hail Mary...

[Francis86]

I agree with you bluecross, she seemed a bit too pushy for a yes or no answer.

God bless

[OnASpiritualJourney2]

All replies are appreciated and sorry for any confusion. As fasting isn't exactly a subject you discuss with others - other than in the family - I thought it would be good to be able to share with each other about what we've found that helps us. Fasting is not easy - it's not supposed to be. And anything that we can do to encourage each other is a step in the right direction. I can imagine that the visionaries all looked to the Blessed Mother for guidance on this and to each other for support as well.

[bluecross]

Q. Is it the prayer and fasting that causes you to see and hear the Blessed Mother?

A. It is not the cause. Rather prayer and fasting are the means that permit a person to become aware of the heavenly reality that is all around us.

Q. If a person truly prays and seriously fasts will that person see Jesus, the Blessed Mother, and the angels as you do, and hear them?

A. Scripture tells us whoever seeks God finds Him.

Q. Is your answer yes?

It is not difficult to see that JC has asked the same question twice in different ways and was not prepared to accepts Jelena’s first answer: “It is not the cause.”

The third question is another attempt to get Jelena to change her first response.

[leo daly]

" I think I read somewhere the author is a lawyer and you can see how she almost cross-examines Jelena to lead her to give a definite answer to one particular question. "

Yes she is a lawyer. It is a while since I read the book but If I remember correctly her husband and/or son is a footballer. I was put of by the documentation in the book that they managed to get faster and faster times for ascending Krizevac. That is not the spirit of the mountain.

OK Yes I rushed on 2 occasions. One when I wanted to be at the top for sunrise. I didn't meditate on the stations but I prayed the rosary on the road to Krizevac. Guess what, no miracles. 2nd time I rushed on the night before the anniversary of the 25th year to get to the top before it got too dark. That time I planned to meditate on the stations when I got there. I did that and when I got to Simon carrying the cross, 2 people from our pilgrimage came up to keep me company. That was humbling. Here I was thinking a day or 2 before, why are they on this pilgrimage and now here they are coming to keep me company. Never judge books by their covers.
Cheers
Leo.

[leo daly]

I do have to admit her book did have a big part to play in my conversion.

Christmas 1998, I made a promise to Mary that if Christmas was peaceful, I'd go as soon as I could to Medjugorje. You can guess what happened so I was not going to break my promise to Her. Early 1999, Ivan came to speak at St Mary's Cathedral. Despite having known of Medjugorje for many years, I was still fairly ignorant. During the apparition, I smelt the roses. I thought it was strange and thought the usual thoughts about someone walking past or sitting near me was wearing perfume. The smell disappeared abruptly and during the next few hours I did not smell it again. At the end of the evening I bought JC's book which mentions the perfume. I was astounded. I (like St Thomas) tried to put it to the test. I eventually had to say it was supernatural because of how quickly it came and went. I had already made my promise to go but this reinforced it For those of you wondering if you should go. I highly recommend it.
Cheers
Leo.

[Mags]

Jelena cannot say that anyone will “hear” Jesus or Mary in the sense that she claims to audibly “hear” because her locution is dependent on Jesus and Mary. In other words she cannot “hear” in the way she does on demand, simply by fasting and prayer, just as the six visionaries cannot “see” Our Lady because they pray and fast. The locutions and apparitions are determined by Our Lady and not those chosen to receive.

This is true Bluecross.
I think the point that needs to be remembered is, when we pray and fast out of our love for God, we will "fine tune" the ears and eyes of our heart, and strengthen our faith, which in turn will help us to grow in love, both for God, and each other..

[bluecross]

It is, as I posted earlier, Jelena is speaking about “hearing” and “seeing” with the heart.

Hail Mary...

[MedjAdmin]

I would love to get that naan recipe.

I wonder if a specific section on fasting would be good for the forum? Members can post bread recipes, prayers, reflections, etc. Let me know your thoughts.

[Mags]

I wonder if a specific section on fasting would be good for the forum? Members can post bread recipes, prayers, reflections, etc. Let me know your thoughts

Sean that's a brilliant idea, and a very positive and encouraging way, to help people to put into practice what Our Lady asks us to do...

I would love to get that naan recipe

Yes...me too..

[BlueKnight]

I enjoyed this post, thank you.

BK

[OnASpiritualJourney2]

I was waiting for Starbright to come on and post the recipe, but I can't imagine that she'd object, so I'll be happy to post it here.

Whatever you think Sean about where the fasting info can be shared. It would be great to have some place to look for help and encouragement.

This recipe is from The Hairy Bakers - you can't make this stuff up!


tsp = teaspoon (coffee spoon)


500g/1lb 2oz strong white bread flour, plus extra for dusting
2 tsp dried yeast
2 tsp poppy seeds
2 tsp fennel seeds
½ tsp salt
½ tsp baking powder
1 free-range egg, beaten
2 tsp olive oil, plus extra for glazing
200ml/7fl oz plain yoghurt
300ml/10fl oz whole milk, warmed

Method
1. Mix the flour, yeast, poppy and fennel seeds, salt and baking powder in a large bowl until well combined.
2. Add the egg, olive oil and yoghurt and stir with a plastic spatula until well combined.
3. Add two thirds of the warm milk to the dough mixture and stir until well combined. Gradually add the remaining milk as necessary until the dough is smooth and soft (you may not need all the milk).
4. Using floured hands, knead the dough on a clean, floured work surface for 20-25 minutes, or until soft and elastic. Put the dough into a bowl, cover with a clean damp tea towel and set aside in a warm, draught-free place for one hour until the dough has doubled in size.
5. Meanwhile, preheat the oven to 250C/500F/Gas 9.
6. When the dough has risen, divide it into 8-10 parts. Using your hands, stretch and flatten each of the naans until they are thin and even, then transfer to a baking sheet. Brush each naan with olive oil.
7. Transfer the naan breads to the oven and bake for 7-10 minutes, or until pale golden-brown but still soft inside.