Medjugorje Forum

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 Post subject: The debate continues ...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:43 am 
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It is unfortunate that the Medjugorje skeptics have published an interview with José Cardinal Saraiva Martins who is skeptical of Medjugorje. This was done, no doubt, to counter the wide media attention recently given in support of the fruits of Medjugorje by Cardinal Schornborn. An article describing the interview can be found at:
http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/archiv ... s-car.html

I wonder if this will escalate the issue with other Cardinals and Bishops publically voicing thier opinions to the media until the Vatican will be forced to take action.

I pray for the visionaries, for the angry dissenters and for Medjugorje.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:15 am 
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i just think that Medugorje's visionaries have pray the rosary and fast more than most of the Cardinals together. i just think that some catholic people's hearts have become of stone ! they just critizes and judge!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:14 am 
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Yes, this interview, which will undoubtedly be spread far and wide, highlights the undoubted confusion within the Church hierarchy regarding private revelation.

I believe Vicka's words during her interview on the recent BBC documentary can be usefully copied again here:

"Our Lady says that she thinks that we are, every single one of us, a living church, so we are the church. It is important for us to accept Medjugorje because we are the church but when it comes to the church leaders, let Her take care of that, She will take care of that."

And our Lady will indeed take care of these difficult matters although we do not know in what way.

David


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:31 pm 
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Read this article which was posted on Spirit Daily which was obtained from Blue`s blog.....another cardinal with positive comments regarding Medjugorje :D :

Wednesday, January 13, 2010
Medjugorje a blessed place says Cardinal

Cardinal Ersilio Tonini made a pilgrimage to Medjugorje in 2009. Afterwards he testified: “I think Medjugorje is a blessed place and a grace of God; who goes to Medjugorje returns transformed, changed, he reflects himself in that source of grace that is Christ. Christ is at the same time the tap and the source. If in Medjugorje, as it is obvious by now, many conversions happen, it surely means that there is the hand of God. I believe that we should look at Medjugorje with serenity and trust, appreciating all the good and holy things that happen in that place,”
********************************************************

Hopefully, there will be more to come!!....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:10 pm 
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in one way, i hope we don't start having a parade of church leaders saying 'i'm for it' or 'i'm against it' this could be devisive for the faithful. one thing is for sure, tho....in whatever way these cardinals and bishops choose to use their position to express their opinion about it, it is bringing the issue to a head.....

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Hopefully, that will not happen MM(no major division within the Church), but it is refreshing to hear more coming up to the plate and sharing their positive views on Medjugorje...not just letting Cardinal Schornborn hang on the fence all by himself....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:02 pm 
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i really believe that in cardinal schornborn's case, he was genuinely hearing the individual call of medjugorje....it was speaking to his heart, he believes sincerely, and he was making a private visit. he was showing how the call of medjugorje reaches out to an individual's heart. he celebrated his faith there in a way in which a consecrated son of the church does---by saying mass.

with all due respect to other bishops and clergy who express negativity without having been there to know and experience the phenomenon, they aren't really doing any favors for anyone to provide 'guidance' for something they themselves are unaware.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:44 pm 
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I do find it somewhat troubling the general dissension that Medjugorje causes. I am talking about dissension not only between religious leaders, but also amongst the faithful. In an ideal world, I do not think that visions of the Holy Mother should cause her children to squabble. I could be wrong, and this is certainly not an ideal world.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Location: My feet are in the US, but my heart is in Medjugorje
I think that there has always been "squabbles" surrounding Saints and apparitions. Where there is so much good, the other is present and hard at work as well.

I think it's wonderful that this other Cardinal has spoken up about Medjugorje. I don't worry about division, I think that this helps to validate what people - who have been to Medjugorje and are following the messages - have been saying for years. It will also give any who might be inclined to be "against" Medjugorje to give pause before they voice their opinion. It might even encourage them to go there and to see for themselves. That's my hope. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Unfortunately there have always been squabbles. You could say a squabble led to the crucifixion of Jesus

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Leo.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:20 pm 
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Thanks - you have both made good points !


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 Post subject: The debate continues ...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:04 am 
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Quote:
Read this article which was posted on Spirit Daily which was obtained from Blue`s blog.....another cardinal with positive comments regarding Medjugorje :

Wednesday, January 13, 2010
Medjugorje a blessed place says Cardinal

Cardinal Ersilio Tonini made a pilgrimage to Medjugorje in 2009. Afterwards he testified: “I think Medjugorje is a blessed place and a grace of God; who goes to Medjugorje returns transformed, changed, he reflects himself in that source of grace that is Christ. Christ is at the same time the tap and the source. If in Medjugorje, as it is obvious by now, many conversions happen, it surely means that there is the hand of God. I believe that we should look at Medjugorje with serenity and trust, appreciating all the good and holy things that happen in that place,”
********************************************************

Hopefully, there will be more to come!!....





Thank you for this uplifting news...

Also, thank you for the positive reples!

Image

Sandy
(Maryschild
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:44 am 
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BobMcCall wrote:
I do find it somewhat troubling the general dissension that Medjugorje causes. I am talking about dissension not only between religious leaders, but also amongst the faithful. In an ideal world, I do not think that visions of the Holy Mother should cause her children to squabble. I could be wrong, and this is certainly not an ideal world.


It is an illusion that Medjugorje or Our Lady's apparitions or any person "causes" squables. Rather it is the spiritual deficiencies (ie sins) of humans that lead to squables. If all of us were following the guidance of Jesus and His Mother (eg frequent fasting, prayer) there would be a lot less squabling!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:56 am 
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Frank,

Though I understand your thoughts on this issue, I also understand why the Church is prudent on such matters.....there will be no ruling on Medjugorje until all the apparitions have ceased.....but it is nice to hear encouraging words from a cardinal or a priest or layman(or woman).....the Church is wise to be prudent......and it is my hope that the Vatican will have a favorable ruling when it comes time to hand out a decision regarding Medjugorje......


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:05 am 
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I have a huge amount of sympathy for Frank's position that he expresses well in his posting. It is the position of many Catholics brought up to 'do what the Church says' and it represents how I was brought up also.

But the phenomena of Medjugorje is actually something which is intended to lead us forward towards Jesus in a personal way. Our Lady comes and holds our hand personally and individually and leads us to Jesus. She does not ask us to disobey the Church but for over 25 years she has encouraged us to follow her, without 'waiting for orders' from the Church. This is something which is challenging for many, and the majority of Catholics seem unready to respond to the challenge. But for those who respond generously to her, their lives will be renewed.

Yes, it would be nice to have the Church adding its own encouragement to follow our Lady in Medjugorje but I am increasingly of the view that those who wait for the Church to act in this way will miss the opportunity to meet Jesus in the way He wants.

David


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