[bluecross]

Pope Francis has inserted the Memorial of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Church, into the Roman Calendar on the Monday following Pentecost Sunday.

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news ... hurch.html

I can’t help reading between the lines on this announcement, especially the paragraph which states:

Having attentively considered how greatly the promotion of this devotion might encourage the growth of the maternal sense of the Church in the pastors, religious and faithful, as well as a growth of genuine Marian piety, Pope Francis has decreed that the Memorial of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Church, should be inscribed in the Roman Calendar on the Monday after Pentecost and be now celebrated every year.

The emphasis is mine underlining the reference to “genuine Marian piety”.

Could be this be an indication that Pope Francis is preparing to make an announcement on the Medjugorje phenomenon, and will explain what is genuine or authentic about the apparitions and what may be false claims?

Why the emphasis on GENUINE Marian piety in this decree?

We know Pope Francis has expressed his personal opinion on the continuing claims of apparitions at Medjugorje saying, “I prefer the Virgin Mary as a Mother, not the head of a post office that sends messages every day at a specific time. This is not the Mother of Jesus.

So today’s announcement regarding Mary as MOTHER of the Church is, I suspect, the Pope once again emphasising his preference for the Virgin Mary as a mother and not “the head of a post office”.

[stunnedbyit]

Funny you should post this BC, as I was just about to post a question about Marijas apparitions. My mother (who has Italian TV) tells me that an Italian journalist reported that these apparitions are basically only available to people paying good money to stay in her hotel.
Does anyone know if this is true or not? I know that the same journalist also upset an old lady outside Ivans house by making a joke about his wealth.
These kind of rumours are unsettling but feel that they merit investigation when we consider what is at stake.

[Prodigals]

Given the pope's very public statements in the past on the Medjugorje matter, its hard to build a case that says the use of this specific phraseology is innocuous and just an innocent use of the word 'genuine'.

From his many pointed and not so diplomatic statements, we know that the man certainly believes that there is a 'false' Marian devotion that he believes some engage in. This does not refer to people insincerely professing a devotion to Mary but not actually practicing it. It refers to folks who are truely devoted to Mary, but (in the pope's opinion) show that devotion through false channels. If you were not aware that vehicles of non-legitimate devotion to Mary existed, then there would be no point to including the word 'genuine' in your statement the way he has done.

So in the very least, I see it as the pontiff's way of reminding us the he hasn't forgotten his thoughts on Medjugorje. Whether his decree of the new memorial signals that he is preparing to expound further in the near future on his position on the Medjugorje phenomenon is impossible to say. All we can say for sure is that he is not afraid speak his mind whenever it suits him.

[ministryvalues]

the medjugorje investigators, the Ruini commission, voted that the early apparitions, the first seven days, were ":genuine" of to use thier wrods "supernatural in nature" . sounds like good news.

As I have told other people. Medjugorje is not "a little pregnant". Either they are or they are not and so far the ruling is the origins are ok with the Church

[bluecross]

a question about Marijas apparitions...

I’ve twice attended apparitions in Marija’s chapel (knelt next to her one time!) but never had to put my hand in my pocket except to take
out my beads!

Given the pope's very public statements in the past on the Medjugorje matter, its hard to build a case that says the use of this specific phraseology is innocuous and just an innocent use of the word 'genuine'.

That’s the way I see it.

Also, back in January Pope Francis made reference to “the secrets of the Mother of God”.
http://www.medjugorjelive.org/forum/vie ... =1&t=40032

[Prodigals]

back in January Pope Francis made reference to “the secrets of the Mother of God”.
http://www.medjugorjelive.org/forum/vie ... =1&t=40032

His analysis in his homily in January was a stretch and a poor attempt to co-opt the word 'secrets' which is strongly linked to Medjugorje. He was suggesting in that homily that Mary's silent concerns, Her apprehensions, and anxieties are the true 'secrets', as opposed to any other 'secrets' that are said to be floating around.

Even linguistically his writing device in the homily falls apart. If the things he mentioned were, as he says, Mary's secrets, he couldn't know about them precisely because they are 'secrets'.

Unless, of course, Mary appeared to him in an apparition and revealed them to him.

[ActionReq]

This proclamation of today is just a
materialization of Sensus Fidelis.
We distinguish Sensus Fidei Fidelium,
and Sensus Fidei Fidelis.
Sensus Fidei Fidelis is the personal
ability of the believer to arrive at a
correct distinction in faith issues.
Sensus Fidei Fidelium, or also called
Sensus Fidelium. is the feeling
of the Holy Spirit of the believers
together that is a proper of the church
itself. It is the church.
When there is a certain question of
faith, you can expect that the
believers by means of Sensus Fidei
Fidelis, on a personal level alone
as individuals and together in groups,
being open to reason and mutually
discussing regarding this faith issue
come to a conclusion and a personal
judgment regarding this issue.

Over time, preferably after many
generations, this view becomes
visible among the ranks of the
church as being an accepted religiosity
or folk religiosity. The opinions of the
many individuals mix and converge in
a living breath in the church. Breath
that was originally blown by the Holy
Spirit.
This is called Consensus Fidelium.
Consensus Fidelium is considered a
reliable criterion for a definitive
determination of a faith issue.

Then it is proclaimed by the pope.
That was done today.
From that moment the folk religiosity
is accepted practice.

For the choice of words are then clear.

[bluecross]

Even linguistically his writing device in the homily falls apart. If the things he mentioned were, as he says, Mary's secrets, he couldn't know about them precisely because they are 'secrets'.

Aren’t you forgetting that the visionaries have given out information about the ‘secrets’. So can they be truly referred to as ‘secrets’ when we already possess details?

About the nature of ‘secrets’...

A woman wanted to confide in her friend and attempted to get her to swear she would keep the information secret. Her friend asked if she had given the information to anyone else. The woman responded she had, but only to a couple of people who had both promised to keep the secret. In that case, said the woman’s friend, what you propose to tell me in secret is not a secret, but information shared with others.

[maryannlucy]

With all due respect, bluecross, I recommend reading the forum rules. I will cut and paste part of the requirements for posting from the moderator, LittleRed

Please post only things that pertain to Medjugorje in this section....If administration feels it does not relate to actual Medjugorje discussion, we will move the thread to what we feel is the proper section...

Also another guideline for posting on the Medjugorje Forum is having a belief in Medjugorje.

No one here wishes to debate Medjugorje's authenticity. We've done that before, and it gets nowhere. There are other forums where you can do that, but this is not one of them.

If your posts do not follow this guideline that we've had for many years, unfortunately your post will be deleted and/or you will be banned from the forum.

Thank you for your support, and God bless.

You may ask why I post this...well let's take a look at what you have recently posted
"Pope places emphasis on GENUINE Marian piety"...seems like you and the pope are taunting us here
"Pilgrim numbers continue to fall at Medjugorje"
"Nothing new in the messages"
"Early report on Mirjana Dragicevic"

It is like you want to stamp out any residual belief that the very few people who post here have left. People who respond to your posts are mainly reasserting their belief in the apparitions and they shouldn't have to do that...that is not really the purpose of this forum. It is for believers to discuss Medjugorje because they already believe in it. The Church has affirmed through Archbishop Hoser that it is good to go there so why all the negativity....here on this forum...dedicated to Medjugorje...for people that believe that Our Lady is there and wants to bring more people to her Son?

[ActionReq]

In defense of bluecross, I do
think that there is a difference
between an anti medjugorje
spammer and what he has
to say here.
I also believe things have to
be addressed and mentioned.

What he says strengthens my
belief, however, agreeing with
maryandlucy I don;t think
it will strengthen the believe
of starters. Or so to say: I think
it may undermine the belief of
starters.

This is the typical case of a
specialist talking to someone
who is more ignorant. The
specialist means something A
and the ignorant hears B,
while A is not B, both become
insulted.

[bluecross]

I’m not insulted.

If anyone has doubts about where I stand on Medjugorje, then I invite them to visit my website and judge fro themselves.

COME AND SEE!

Yesterday I posted on my home page a beautiful video from last year’s Youth Festival.

https://www.themedjugorjewitness.org

[bluecross]

I noticed that when maryannlucy launched her missile yesterday, attacking me because of some of my recent posts (as well as suggesting that Pope Francis and myself were ‘taunting’ the forum), her post was numbered 666...

Surely an unfortunate coincidence.

Today maryannlucy has made a further post, this time about the power of prayer and the peace moves on the Korean Peninsula, to move her counter onto 667.

[maryannlucy]

look up at my post, it says post #667, so you are wrong there, as well

[bluecross]

No, it was 666. Your post about Korea pushed the counter to 667. Your post disagreeing with the number has pushed the counter onto 668.

The counter is the total number of posts you have made on the forum.

Yesterday, it was 666, and now its moved on to 668. Check back on the post you made quoting the rulebook. It’s now 668. It will keep changing every time you make a post.

666 plus 2 = 668.

If you respond again, it will move to 669.

These are the numbers and timing of your last three posts:

666 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:31 am 
667 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:12 pm
668 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:51 pm

[maryannlucy]

I see your point about the counter. I do not see your point about why you titled a new thread
Pope places emphasis on GENUINE Marian piety Why did you all caps the word genuine? Are you hinting that the Medjugorje devotion is not genuine in your view? What is genuine Marian devotion in your estimation? Many of your postings are critical of Mirjana and now you are starting to pick apart the messages. You say you are not insulted and then come back and say that I my post is satanic for calling you out on your negativity about Medjugorje on a Medjugorje forum where the members are supposed to be supportive of the messages and the overall apparitions. I will stay away from your postings because you are exhibiting passive aggressive behavior, but I will not stay away from supporting Medjugorje, the messages and any relevant information about the visionaries.

[bluecross]

Seeing another person’s point of view isn’t always possible when we are placed in different positions and circumstances, or even at a particular stage on our journey through life.

The emphasis on GENUINE Marian piety is because Pope Francis made it in the decree: Read the post again and see I posed the question: Why the emphasis on GENUINE Marian piety in this decree?

I linked this to ealier comments made by Pope Francis regarding his personal opinion doubting the claims of ongoing apparitions.

I’m not hinting at anything other than what the Pope has said about Medjugorje. My opinion on what is genuine and not genuine Marian devotion doesn’t count. I have my own experiences of Medjugorje, many of them, as I have travelled there probably about 30 times. I see conversions and lives changing. I don’t see apparitions. I see pilgrims reconciling with the Church and returning to the Sacraments.

My postings are not critcal of Mirjana. I ask and pose questions. I don’t always blindly accept everything I witness and observe at Medjugorje.

I am not insulted. I’m too long in the tooth for that kind of nonsense. Insults are water off a duck’s back to me. However, I do feel for the people who through ignorance or anger or for any other reason, go to war on me in this way because they damage their own heart and not mine. I recognise where it is coming from.

The rule book you quote from is donkey’s years old. LittleRed stopped participating on the forum a long, long time ago, as did the moderators you see listed. Even Sean, who set up the forum doesn’t participate any more. So the forum basically polices itself and most times it seems to operate okay.

I didn’t say your post was satanic. I made an observation about the post number and said it was an unfortunate coincidence. But I also sensed it was aggressive because you felt I was undermining Medjugorje when I wasn’t. If I wanted to do this I could use my own website to go down that road. But I don’t. I promote Medjugorje and encourage people to go there on pilgrimage. Up to five years ago I would lead pilgrimage groups there, two or three times a year. Now, because of health issues, I am unable to do this. My focus is still on Medjugorje, but not through rose-tinted glasses.

I haven’t a clue what you mean when you accuse me of ‘exhibiting passive aggresive behaviour’. But I know that all wars begin in the heart, yours and mine included.

And please don’t stay away from supporting and witnessing to Medjugorje. Follow the apparitions, follow the visionaries, that’s your choice, but don’t overlook the real sign that Our Lady is pointing to. Visionaries and Popes are human – and even sinners. Jesus is both fully human and fully divine. He is your Peace.

[Maryh]

MaryAnnLucy & Bluecross,,,,,Stick em up!!!
You have the right to remain silent....anything you say can and will be used against you.
You are now under arrest.

Ah no but seriously; Its good to air our differences and be honest but Let's not accuse each other of things.

Its obvious you both love and feel very protective of Medjugorje.... We got a common enemy so we're all on the same
team here.


The difference between 6 and 7 is the love of Christ. Just after hearing this on a video i'm watching right this minute!
7 for heaven, series by Dr. David Jeremiah.
The number of man is 6, the beast is 666, the best anyone can do is get to that number but its not a 7, the difference
between 6 and 7 is the blood of Christ. We all need Jesus & the grace of God! None of us can do it on our own.
What a co-incidence!

[Merlorrich]

re: Marija's chapel

I too was in Marija's chapel and I didn't have to pay. I guess because it is a small chapel attendance is probably by invite. I was able to attend because of a priest who was able to get us in. But as they say in Medjugorje, if our lady wants it.......

re: the thought police

They are alive and well in Ireland and ready to browbeat and mock anything that doesn't fit the status quo.

re: Genuine Marian piety

Hope we can all pursue a genuine Marian piety that is consistent with the will of God.

re: The secrets

Can the pope order that the secrets be written down and delivered to him ?

re: The Church has affirmed through Archbishop Hoser that it is good to go there

Surely this is a very positive sign.

https://www.themedjugorjewitness.org

Some great photos.

[Maryh]

re: the thought police


They are alive and well in Ireland and ready to browbeat and mock anything that doesn't fit the status quo.

Never seen anything like it. Honestly it's like all hell's broken loose.
I don't even expect people to be in any way reasonable or fair anymore; expectations have never been lower.

Hope your doing OK these days Merlorrich. It's really difficult.

[ActionReq]

Post 666, I saw it also.
But you know?
If you have wisdom then
you can calculate that
number.
Now where is the math?
Do you see it?
Do I see it?

Here 666 is a pinnacle of fallacy.
Please refrain from fallacies.

Or maybe it was a little joke?
Take it with a grain of salt
Then you can laugh about it.
Because it was funny.
Wasn't it?

[bluecross]

Which brings us back to the word “emphasis” and what the Pope meant when he spoke about “genuine Marian piety”…how it is applied and understood, and by whom.

Just posted this comment on my website by Fr Jozo Zovko.... more at: https://www.themedjugorjewitness.org/miracles

In Medjugorje the miracle is not so much in Our Lady’s apparitions, nor in the words she speaks to us, but in the pilgrim’s reply, who accepts to change his heart and life. That is the great miracle!

[Merlorrich]

Never seen anything like it. Honestly it's like all hell's broken loose.
I don't even expect people to be in any way reasonable or fair anymore; expectations have never been lower.

Hope your doing OK these days Merlorrich. It's really difficult.

Maryh, I was thinking along similar lines recently and was wondering when it all will end, without wishing any harm on anyone from any chastisement. I hope that through Marian piety we can obtain the grace that God's mercy stands in the way of God's justice and put an end to this hour of trial without the chastisement. After all Our Lady is our intercessor and does not God grant all requests sent through Our Lady ? As time to goes by I am leaning stronger towards the view that prayer is the most important weapon we have in this battle. Regarding the referendum there is a good way to go yet, but clearly hearts and minds are being won over, so let's continue in what ever way we have been able to assist thus far

[kim52]

I've experienced by grace miracles and haven't been to Medjugorie. Yet I sincerely believe. I don't know why the location it's self does not call to me, but what happened there does. I guess Im not a traveller. The Pope himself confuses me more than anything, but I sincerely like to understand him when I can. My parish Priests help me. These are really hard times to live in with society embracing sin so very much. Medjugorie brings back peace to me And it's that simple and hopeful.

[irish m]

well I am not long back from Medjugorje morning of the appartion the crowd that was there you wouldn't think the numbers are down what a Blessed 5 days I had coming up on the bus I fell in with a Nun from South of Ireland and we started talking and got to know her she was lovely well she was with two others that I had met some years back and they had brought her out with them they told me that she had been cured in Medjugorje 10 years earlier .so for me
Medjugorje will always be in my heart Our lady is there she brought me to it

Ps have some pictures and video if I can get someone to put them up for me I will
God Bless you all
love Irish M
Ps light a candle and prayed for the Forum

[MRSTOL]

Dear Irish M,
Thank You for praying for me on your trip. It was very thoughtful of you to include us in your prayers. I experience tremendous joy and overwhelming awe when my husband (a non Catholic) make our yearly pilgrimage there to visit the BVM at here home away from home. I will ALWAYS believe in Medjugorje regardless of all the sceptics and non believers.

Love in Christ
MRSTOL