[bluecross]

This question has been put to the Medjugorje visionaries countless times: “Does Our Lady have a message for Ireland?”

On May 25th the people of the Irish Republic will vote in the abortion referedum, so it will be interesting to see if Our Lady makes any reference to this in her message on the same day.

On a personal note May 25 is when one of my sons first saw the light of day in this world.

Also on the same day a good friend to me will be laid to rest. She was a major Medjugorje promoter in the UK. Please pray for Marie and her extended family.

[ActionReq]

Says Gospa:
Abortion? Sorry, I don't
speak English. Kept my
mouth shut at Knock.
I appeared to a Belgian
woman in Wisconsin in
French. It doesn't seem
to be a word that exists
in the English dictionary
that we have in the
heavens. There will be
no reference to this....
what again do you call
that word?

I can talk about life though.

[bluecross]

Sorry, I don't
speak English.

Gaeilge?

BTW, Our Lady is a regular visitor to Ireland.
http://www.thejournal.ie/apparitions-ir ... 3-Jun2015/
https://www.irishcentral.com/travel/top ... -237788711

[Maryh]

I don't think Our Lady will make any special exception for Ireland on May 25th.
Awful things happen all over the world on a daily basis and I've never heard any messages that seem to
refer to them directly. Maybe i'm wrong!

Most of the messages seems to address each and everyone on a more personal level...asking us to trust God, decide for God,
& be strong in the faith.

I'll pray for your friend & her family & please do keep Ireland in your prayers too.
Sadly i'll be shocked if the outcome is a no vote. Everyone's so 'all in'...its scary.
In the mix is a hefty dose of 'Catholic church' bashing also; just today i heard the phrase 'bible thumping trash' to refer to
us..even though it wasn't personally directed at me, it's still horrible to know this is how people really feel.

I think it would take a miracle at this stage. I also need to muster up courage to do all i can. I don't want to hurt anyone but i also don't want to keep silent. It's really not easy.

[bluecross]

I don't think Our Lady will make any special exception for Ireland on May 25th

I agree.

I'll pray for your friend & her family & please do keep Ireland in your prayers too.

Thank you – and will do.

Seems that Ireland is going through another period of division with the issues of the Brexit border and the split vote on abortion. Will there ever be a “united Ireland”? Almost a 100 years on since the Irish civil war started...

[Merlorrich]

Will pray Bluecross

ActionReq: Jesus doesn't refuse any request of His mother, so let's ask her to speak on behalf of all unborn children and on our behalf as well.

Maryh: If you give all your doubts and worries to Our Lady she will take care of them.

In all difficulties pray, pray, pray. Let's not lose hope.

[ActionReq]

so let's ask her to speak on behalf of all unborn children and on our behalf as well.

speaking about life is speaking
against the so called abortion.
And when we ask her to speak
against abortion, to me it is
clear she will speak about life.
Jesus is the way, the truth and
the life.
She instructs her people, she
doesn't rebuke the adversary.
He that is unjust, let him be
unjust still.(rev)
Speaking on behalf of the unborn
is speaking about life. Speaking
about Jesus. You pray, fast and
read the bible out loud to your kids.
That is how you prevent abortion.

I believe in the heavens they do
not cry about an abortion, they
cry because of the circumstances
that lead to people taking a
decision to abort.

Flooding the streets against abortion
is like cutting your hair. You cut
the points, however underneath
it keeps growing, because the
circumstances that lead to it are
just getting worse.

In the final judgement they will
not ask you: Did you go to this
and that demonstration? No. They
will ask: Did you feed the hungry
pregnant mother? Did you cloth
the pregnant daughter? Did you
invite the pregnant lonely girl to
your house? Were you any safe
ground for anybody who would
otherwise only come to the
conclusion that the only solution
is abortion?

I find myself doing things for
others, however none of the
mentioned in Matthew 25:31.

[Maryh]

Maryh: If you give all your doubts and worries to Our Lady she will take care of them.

That's really encouraging; Thanks! I'm struggling to pray these but i really need to do now more than ever.
I feel like taking to a cave for the foreseeable future as the early church fathers did in the dessert.
Its like everyone is saying evil is good and good is evil.

Will there ever be a “united Ireland”? Almost a 100 years on since the Irish civil war started...

It's not shaping up that way from what i can see anyway BC.
God only blesses a land if people humble themselves and turn from sin.
I meant to tell you that i think God is taking so many of his saints home these days, not just your friend; i know of 2 really saintly people who died recently as well.

Were you any safe
ground for anybody who would
otherwise only come to the
conclusion that the only solution
is abortion?

Lots of challenging questions to think about and ask ourselves there Actionreq!

Something i learned is that if your going to vote yes on this; your automatically ex-communicating yourself and won't be
able to receive holy communion. There's even ministers of holy communion out advocating for the Yes side.
So this means that there'll either be nobody going up to receive it or everyone will be swanning up thinking they have every right to.
My money is on the latter.

[Merlorrich]

I believe in the heavens they do not cry about an abortion,
they cry because of the circumstances that lead to people taking a decision to abort.

The circumstances are sad of course, but surely the outcome is sad too ?

Flooding the streets against abortion is like cutting your hair.
You cut the points, however underneath it keeps growing,
because the circumstances that lead to it are just getting worse.

I think the resolution here is to pray, then hopefully you can stop the growth.
However, in Ireland's case as there is a referendum coming,
and you have a one sided biased media,
then at least in my human understanding (as opposed to
wisdom from the Holy Spirit)
it is a good idea at least for those who feel called to do so
to be out on the streets talking about the pro-life message.

In the final judgement they will not ask you: Did you go to this and that demonstration?
No. They will ask: Did you feed the hungry pregnant mother?
Did you cloth the pregnant daughter?
Did you invite the pregnant lonely girl to your house?
Were you any safe ground for anybody who would otherwise only come to the conclusion that the only solution is abortion?

How can you be so sure that God will not ask if you went to a demonstration?
I thought prayer can be in thought, words, or deeds.
What if you offered your attendance at a demonstration as a prayer
and/or joined in with any prayers said at the demonstration ?
I hope I can adequately answer the other questions you have raised from my own examination of conscience

....
I feel like taking to a cave for the foreseeable future as the early church fathers did in the dessert.
Its like everyone is saying evil is good and good is evil.

There is an appeal to how the early church lived.
Sometimes I think I would like to be living in Medjugorje,
where you can converse with friends and colleagues who are likely to be
motivated about praying and you can discuss your faith
without fear of disdain, mockery or judgement.
Then I think that my call is to be in Ireland.
This is where people are needed to be a good example by their life.
Also in Medjugorje, people are people so they will continue to be not perfect.
Also, you can't have all pilgrims moving there.
So the move to Medjugorje is on the long finger - unless God's plans change.
I totally agree with you regarding 'Its like everyone is saying evil is good and good is evil. '
After all both Yes and No sides in the abortion debate talk about compassion.

Something i learned is that if your going to vote yes on this;
your automatically ex-communicating yourself and won't be
able to receive holy communion. There's even ministers of holy communion out advocating for the Yes side.
So this means that there'll either be nobody going up to receive it or everyone will be swanning up thinking they have every right to.
My money is on the latter.

This is scary and sheer confusion when ministers of holy communion are advocating for a Yes vote.
The best thing I can think of is to pray for their conversion.

[irish m]

All I can say is pray pray pray for Ireland that it doesn't happen
I prayed to our Lady when in was in Medjugorje to help us
God Bless you all
love Irish M

[Maryh]

Sometimes I think I would like to be living in Medjugorje,
where you can converse with friends and colleagues who are likely to be
motivated about praying and you can discuss your faith
without fear of disdain, mockery or judgement.
Then I think that my call is to be in Ireland.

I love how your aware of where God may be calling you to be. Focusing on what God wants instead is what i should be doing
also.

My desire to run away and hide in a cave is probably not from God,
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.
2 Tim 1:7.


Thanks Irish M for the prayers.
The latest I've heard is how a Fr. Leo in Medjugorje has told Irish pilgrims to go home & vote No!
There was much consternation that many were off on pilgrimage to Lourdes and Medjugorje and wouldn't
be available to vote in this referendum where every vote counts.

[bluecross]

If you give all your doubts and worries to Our Lady she will take care of them.

The response to to the psalm at Mass yesterday was:

Entrust your cares to the Lord
and he will support you.

Sometimes I think I would like to be living in Medjugorje,
where you can converse with friends and colleagues who are likely to be
motivated about praying and you can discuss your faith
without fear of disdain, mockery or judgement.
Then I think that my call is to be in Ireland.

And the first three verses of the Psalm (54) for Tuesday:

O that I had wings like a dove
to fly away and be at rest,
So I would escape far away
and take refuge in the desert.

I would hasten to find a shelter
from the raging wind
from the destructive storm, O Lord,
and from their plotting tongues.

For I can see nothing but violence
and strife in the city.
Night and day they patrol
high on the city walls.

[bluecross]

With news today (on Spirit Daily) of a weeping statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico, will this be seen as a sign pointing to the outcome of Friday’s Irish abortion referendum?

[Prodigals]

This is scary and sheer confusion when ministers of holy communion are advocating for a Yes vote.

Just because a person is an EM (extraordinary minister of the Eucharist) does not indicate any particular level of holiness or fidelity to Church teaching. In many cases it can be quite the opposite, given that the selection of EMs is left to the local parish each establishing their own criteria. There are many lay people handling the Eucharist who have absolutely no idea of Who they are handling (notice I said 'Who' - not 'what').

And in my circles, there are EMs who continually keep demanding that women be ordained as priests even though the Church has spoken infallibly that it cannot happen.

Of the over 1 billion Catholics that are said to be in the world, far too many are CINOs (Catholic In Name Only) and maintain their own particular personalized blend of beliefs, doctrines, and practices which may or may not have any basis in bona fide Catholic Church teaching. The point about Ireland and the Vote is just another example.

Its a distressing state of affairs when we heed Our Lady's Medjugorje call to 'pray for the unbelievers', and we also have to pray for those who think they believe but actually don't.

[Maryh]

With news today (on Spirit Daily) of a weeping statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico, will this be seen as a sign pointing to the outcome of Friday’s Irish abortion referendum?

I think so BC.
I'll be shocked if the result is No. All the powerful has conspired against a No vote.
Thanks so much for pointing out the lovely bible passage about wanting to fly away like a dove.
Its exactly how i feel. Think a stint in a cave will be necessary for me to let go of the bitterness i'm feeling & for Jesus to
renew my heart to be more forgiving & more like his.

Its a distressing state of affairs when we heed Our Lady's Medjugorje call to 'pray for the unbelievers', and we also have to pray for those who think they believe but actually don't.

There was a man on T.V last night who was an ex priest who used Jesus to advocate for the Yes vote.
He brought up the bible passage where Jesus was saying 'Who among you who is without sin can judge/condemn' & cast the first stone etc.
I've seen and experienced this kind of stunt before when others try to use Jesus against you, by trying to guilt you into seeing things their way.
Its true none of us are 'righteous'...no not one but that doesn't mean we can't still try to do the right thing & prevent worse things from happening.

Of the over 1 billion Catholics that are said to be in the world, far too many are CINOs (Catholic In Name Only) and maintain their own particular personalized blend of beliefs, doctrines, and practices which may or may not have any basis in bona fide Catholic Church teaching.

I'd go so far as to say that many people actually hide behind religion. I know of two in particular who actually needs to be arrested by police and made give an account of their actions. They are criminals and they are not who they appear to be. They're using Jesus for their own twisted ends.
Nobody has a clue & this affects my faith in the holy spirit. How do they get away with it? Where is the spirit of truth?
Are people being led by the holy spirit? Am i?
I find it so hard to accept that wickedness can and does prosper but then i have to remember that God has the last word.
I think its a matter of trusting God's promises which i find hard.
What i learned today also is that
We're supposed to praise and Thank God in good times and in bad.
We're to offer our mass in Thanksgiving, our praise in thanksgiving, our rosaries in Thanksgiving.

Better start practising!

[Prodigals]

There was a man on T.V last night who was an ex priest who used Jesus . . . . .

Leave it to an 'ex-priest" to mis-use Christ's words. As an "ex", looks like he couldn't even comprehend the meaning of the words in the priestly vow he originally took and walked away from. So his credibility on spiritual matters is shot. And I might add that his eternal future is not looking so great at this point either.

His fallacious contention is that since none are without sin, then none may point out sins. This, of course, is absurd.

Christ said that whoever of us was sinless could be the ones to levy punishment on others for their sin. And since none of us is sinless, then none of us can apply punishment on another for their sin, because “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” (Rom 12:19)

But we are certainly commanded to judge between good and evil (1 Kgs 3:9), and to judge righteously (John 7:24)

There is absolute right and absolute wrong. Jesus, The High Priest, came into this world to bear witness to it. And as evidenced by this man on TV, there is cancer of moral relativism which rejects the truth. As part of our baptismal priesthoods, we are called to carry on Christ's mission to bear witness to the Truth.

But you can't expect a guy who is a failed priest to grasp this.

[bluecross]

His fallacious contention is that since none are without sin, then none may point out sins. This, of course, is absurd.

So allow me to say, Prodigals, that I sense it might be difficult for anyone to match up to your expectations and understanding of righteousness.

I’m sure you are aware that it wasn’t the wastrel son who refused to enter his Father’s kingdom but the ‘righteous’ son who showed no mercy in his heart for his brother. I wonder what else kept him waiting outside, despite all the years he had ‘slaved’ for his Father?

Indeed, what keeps any of us waiting outside the Kingdom, refusing to accept the invitation of the Father to enter and join in the celebration?

[Prodigals]

. . . mercy in his heart for his brother.

Admonishing a sinner IS mercy. It is one of the seven Spiritual Works of Mercy. We are commanded to help our neighbor in their spiritual needs. You should know that.

As His disciples, we are called to shine as lights in the world to His message. You can't be a beacon of Truth to anyone if you validate their sin by your silence.

"Reprimand publicly those who do sin, so that the rest also will be afraid." (1 Tim 5:20)

" . . . know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." (James 5:20)

The world is rushing headlong into adopting a faux eleventh commandment: "Thou shalt not judge." Excusing moral wrong is a dangerous heresy. Aquinas writes, “The greatest kindness one can render to any man consists in leading him from error to truth.” Is this saint wrong?

Leviticus teaches "Reprove your neighbor openly".

Edmund Burke of Ireland once said "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
There is no greater tyranny than sin.

[Maryh]

This is a topic I've been thinking about with much dismay over the past number of days and months actually.

I don't think we can compare every sinner to the repentant prodigal son and cast ourselves into the role of
judgemental self righteous older brother.
The difference in this story is that the prodigal son was repentant....there are many who become emboldened with your
love and acceptance and tolerance; If the prodigal was unrepentant; even worse things may happen.


I don't resent the man for being an ex-priest because at least he knew his limitations & maybe knew he wasn't up to the task;
i resent people using Jesus though to further a wicked agenda.

There are an incredible number of abusers who have plundered the flock of Jesus and the damage caused is untold.
They need to be called out for it.
Its not on the same petty plane as a brother getting a fattened calf and a party.
That's in a league of its own.

Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 2 Timothy 4:14
Wasn't this St. Paul calling out Alexander & telling the truth of his experience?
Many people are cowed into remaining silent on what they've experienced at the hands of others.

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11

[bluecross]

You should know that.

Prodigals, I was troubled by your “strain” of mercy expressed about the mentioned “ex-priest. Would you apply this level or degree of “mercy” to all “ex-priests” without knowing them or their personal circumstances, or the reasons why they are no longer priests?

This “righteous” attitude of mercy reminded me of part of a talk given by Fr Svetozar Kraljevic to english-speaking pilgrims at Medjugorje. Please allow me to share it with you. It speaks to me and maybe others on the forum as well.

I am going to share something with you. I am the Rector of Mother’s Village and 83 people are employed there. Today there are 350 there for lunch. You get into a situation of human relationships when someone is in charge of a portion of the work there and takes it very seriously. I am sharing my frustrations with you. This person in charge, he suddenly sees that someone is doing something wrong. Wrong, period!

The mistake that people make is that with the justice of God and their righteousness, they go charging in and in a rage crush the heart of another person. If someone then reprimands them for the tension that is suddenly in the workplace, they will say, “Don’t you know I’m right?” So with vengeance and justice they walk around ‘right’. They are able to crush their fellow co-workers and make tension in the whole place and create situations that are not desirable.

This happens because we are not willing to suffer. We are so often so willing to condemn, judge and be righteous. The most damage we do to ourselves and others is by being righteous, by being right. That is why Christ goes to be crushed on the Cross. He didn’t say a word to the person who was crucifying him. He allowed that person to learn himself, in his own time. At that moment he

didn’t know what he was doing. He allowed him to learn, to grow, to find out in his own way. That is the way we will be brothers and sisters and pilgrims: allowing the person next to you to be stupid, to be wrong, and you remain silent again and again and again, and be calm and then the situation will be resolved by itself.

Pray to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit of God will teach you, but only after you have suffered and prayed. Then you become a redeemer yourself, a co-redeemer with Jesus Christ for your family, for your children for your friend, for your neighbour, in such a way that we stand not as judges but as brothers and sisters who will bring blessings to others, not condemnation.

This person might be or is wrong, but the damage that is coming to this person in this harsh way is far greater damage than the initial wrong that this person was doing. Then we inflict greater sufferings with greater consequences that this initial damage that was there, that we thought we needed to address.

In pilgrimage, we actually learn to walk, willing to suffer, to experience injustices, willing to be misunderstood. We walk with the shortcomings, wrongs, injustices done against us. The time will come, but only after we have suffered a bit, when we will be able to address the situation, to dress the wound and clean it and let it grow better.

Then these people around will realise that they were seen doing wrong, and they were not rejected or crushed – and they will appreciate that and they will grow. This is the area where we need to investigate the mysteries and secrets and wisdom of life.

We pilgrims pray in such a way because all this is common sense. we don’t need to wait for a child to do something stupid to warn them, gently, with the love of God, and not with vengeance and poison of our own, fears and selfishness.

[Merlorrich]

Could all the people reading this please spare a prayer for Ireland ? Many thanks

In all difficulties pray, pray, pray

[Maryh]

Will do Merlorrich!

Think i'm getting side-tracked.

Meant to say too; I'm sorry i didn't mean to refer to going up to communion as going up for 'it'.
People go up to receive Our Lord.

I do think it was important to point that out.

[Merlorrich]

Thanks Maryh.

I too will take Prodigals'comment on board and be mindful to think of communion as Our Lord.

Jesus kept lukewarm souls to the last day of the Divine Mercy Novena and said:

Today bring to Me SOULS WHO HAVE BECOME LUKEWARM, and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. These souls wound My Heart most painfully. My soul suffered the most dreadful loathing in the Garden of Olives because of lukewarm souls. They were the reason I cried out: 'Father, take this cup away from Me, if it be Your will.' For them, the last hope of salvation is to run to My mercy.

I was going to use this to refer to the CINOs but remembered that perhaps in behavior I could be like that too, and so I will not judge - lest I will be judged accordingly.

[Maryh]

So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. Revelation 3:16

Wasn't it Pope John Paul that said the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference?
I suppose its worth it to remember that its the standard of love that we'll all be judged on when all is said and done.
Without love i am nothing.

I appreciate that article you posted too BC.
Its true that the desire to take 'righteousness' into our own hands and force it on others causes so
much strife, divisions among people and the dreaded 'root of bitterness'.

See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. Hebrews 12:15

I do try to check myself before i wreck myself so that i'm not acting out of selfish ambition, rage and vengeance.
For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
James 3:16

Think i'm officially a bible thumper tonight!

[Merlorrich]

Very wise Maryh ...thanks for posting.

Taking righteousness into our own hands is dangerous because we can become smug and complacent and start to believe we are better than others. That is when pride kicks in. On the other hand I guess there is value in pointing out the errors of others. It takes a village to raise a child. But it is how you do it I guess. Personally I just pray for their conversion. Non confrontational - yes it is- but also because I don't think I could fully explain why something is wrong or right.

That's it I am off to bed.